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ho428 · 07-23-2009, 08:53 AM

I'm installing a cooler and have a question.
Do I need to install a check valve where the line leaves the block?

I run a remote filter and NAPA Gold, but when I removed the 12" pressure line it was empty so the oil is draining back. Having a 5' line drain back would be even worse.

60man · 07-23-2009, 09:01 AM

Does your NAPA Gold have a "anti drainback" built in. I think that's the termanology used in NAPA's Master Filter Catalog. What filter are you using?
Not sure if a check valve would create a restriction. I run a remote filter but haven't checked hoses for oil but haven't had any problems either. I crank my motor over about 10-15 seconds before firing off too...I have a seperated ignition switch..

Dumb question ?? Do you have the lines hooked up correctly ? Inlet ? outlet?

ho428 · 07-23-2009, 09:35 AM

NAPA gold is supposed to have the anti drain back. Yep, it's hooked up to the block and filter housing correctly.
I looked at a check valve, and it did look like it might create a restriction. I use them in hydraulic applications at work, but never on an engine oiling system.
You do need some pressure to get it off the seat. Not sure what the min is though. Different ones use different pressures.

On the cooler I was looking at going in the top and out the bottom, that way if it does drain back it won't empty the whole cooler, unless I get a siphon effect.

I'll eventually add an accusump, just can't buy everything at once.

screamingchief · 07-23-2009, 10:54 AM

I have'nt really thought much about this specific situation myself,,,so I'd have to ponder the issue a bit more before coming to any solid conclusions one way or the other...

I can say this,the anti-drainback valve in the oil filter is only designed to keep the oil in the filter itself,and that valve will not help to keep any oil in the lines or passages that lead to/from the filter.

So that pretty much covers that part of this dilema.

As for the lines themselves,it would seem wise to try and maintain oil in them where possible,but agree you would'nt want to restrict them either,so yeah,careful consideration is due.

How the system is plumbed will go a long way towards solving that concern,but I agree it might not address certain specific installations.

Not all check valves are spring loaded ball/seat affairs,some are a one-way "flapper" design,those would likely be the design to use here,as I would hafta surmise they would be the least restrictive option,so you might wanna look for some of those pieces for this.

Beyond that,I'm not too certain what to advise here.

Bret P.

60man · 07-23-2009, 11:24 AM

SChief..I agree anti drainback "filter is just that...Keeps filter full...but at least it wouldn't be completely dry/empty. Also.....all filters do not always have the anti drainback feature..
Oil cooler....I had a big step van that had a factory oil cooler on it. All the lines and cooler itself were mounted low...below pan rail and cooler was under radiator. Seems it had a thermostat in line too.....maybe it functioned as a check valve to boot. It was a sandwich type between filter and housing. With all plumbing and cooler being low doubt if drain back were an issue..

I wanted to mount my filter on frame/low but X-frame messed that up..

Yep....$$ can be a problem..especially now.

triathlonx13 · 07-23-2009, 11:31 AM

I'm using 12AN lines, B&M cooler with fan (which never runs), and NAPA Gold 1060 filter.... with no problems. So far so good?

.

ho428 · 07-23-2009, 11:51 AM

I can try and mount the cooler way down in the valance, that might get it below the block outlet but pretty tight there in a 68 Bird. It could still drain back from the remote filter. Can't really get it below the the outlet.
For now I'd hoped to put the cooler behind the PS grill which is also above the outlet.

One of these days all that factory bumper bracket mess has got to go.

ho428 · 07-23-2009, 12:51 PM

If I'm thinking this ciruit through right Canton uses a check valve to keep oil from entering the pump side when using an Accusump.
http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/...ion&key=24-280

If I installed the check valve it does the same thing for me, allows oil out from the pump, one way only.

gtoroadracer · 07-23-2009, 01:57 PM

Do not use a check valve, the one Canton sell will cause a restriction. I even asked them what was the flow rate and they did not know. You would only need a check valve if you are running an accusump and even then it is not neccesary, I removed mine along time ago. If you need something to prevent fluid going back in the opposite direction earl's plubming sells a military style flapper valve, it works extremely well does not restrict flow but is extremely expensive like $200 something for 12 an. It you are using an oil cooler only it is not needed at all just make sure the fittings on the oil cooler are either coming out the side or on top and you can mount it as low as possible that oil pump will pump oil everywhere.

gtoroadracer · 07-23-2009, 02:01 PM

Gordon, looking at the picture you might also want to get rid of that mechanical fan, spinning at 7,000 rpms is probably going to play a toll on your water pump. I run 2 twelve inch electric puller fans they work great I leave them on all the time, Just some food for thought.

ho428 · 07-23-2009, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtoroadracer

Gordon, looking at the picture you might also want to get rid of that mechanical fan, spinning at 7,000 rpms is probably going to play a toll on your water pump. I run 2 twelve inch electric puller fans they work great I leave them on all the time, Just some food for thought.

Everyone picks on my fan... and my $12 NAPA water pump.

To be honest the fan makes me nervous just working around it when it's running. I looked at some electrics awhile back, again, more $$$ Some things get moved in front of others but it is on the list.
Now I find out I have to get a HANS by the November race. Major Cha-ching... $

By now I'm actually starting to look forward to the offseason, getting a laundry list of stuff to do on the car. This thrash and prep learning curve is getting old. Now I know why people say buy an already built car.

Interesting about the oil check valve being restrictive, I'd called them a little while ago about how mush pressure it takes to open it, only 4 psi, but if it's restrictive I don't need that.
Flapper valve would be the way to go.

455-4+1 · 07-23-2009, 04:03 PM

Take a look at this post and Cantons response at the bottom them make up your own mind !!

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...on+check+valve

ho428 · 07-23-2009, 04:21 PM

Thanks for all the info guys. I'll see what I can come up with this weekend.

If anyone doubts just how hard a road race engine works, listen to this guys engine at Road Atlanta.

Luckily he's not in my class.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfWx_wF4vSg

lust4speed · 07-24-2009, 01:15 AM

My engine took several seconds before building oil pressure with the non-drainback filters, and replacing them with filters that did have the flap valves really cut down the time before the gauge needle moved. The hoses pretty much still will drain over time, but maybe the flap stops additional oil from the filter also being sucked back into the pan. All I know is it did help going to the filters with the anti-drainback feature.

ho428 · 07-27-2009, 09:00 AM

I got the cooler installed without the check valve, tried everything I could to get it into the valance but not enough room until I get rid of the hood latch support and rework the bumper bracket. The cooler inlet is about even with the block outlet, but the line runs up to a bracket I mounted on the head to keep it off the A-arm, then back down to the cooler.
Anyway, it flowed fine, I can turn the engine over without the ignition on and it takes about 12-15 seconds to get the needle to move. Just firing it cold it takes about 2-3 seconds. The whole system now takes 10 quarts.

I lost about 8-10 PSI cold, about 60 psi at fast idle, don't know with hot oil yet. But the water temps went up a lot faster with the cooler in front of the radiator, just running in the driveway with no shroud and the hood up, so piss poor air flow on a 90+ degree day.

I'll add some metal to inside the valance to feed air into the radiator better, about all I know to do. At speed on the track it probably won't be an issue anyway. But getting an electric fan just got bumped up the list.

lust4speed · 07-27-2009, 11:26 AM

I only went about 4 seconds before building pressure on a cold start and that was unsettling - 12 or more seconds would scare the hell out of me. Your pressure loss is what I experienced, and my engine ran about 8° warmer on the temp gauge after the cooler blocked some of the air flow. I finally gave up and pulled the cooler back out but did leave the dual remote filter in place.

ho428 · 07-27-2009, 11:54 AM

On a cold start it takes 2-3 seconds. Just turning the starter without ignition is what took 12.

gtoroadracer · 07-28-2009, 06:31 AM

One thing you might want to put on your "to do list" is an accusump. Not only will it help with low oil pressure on the cornering but before start up you can pre oil the motor by turning it on for about 10-15 seconds, that is what I do so when the motor starts up you already have oil pressure.

ho428 · 08-03-2009, 07:57 AM

Getting the car ready for a race this weekend, first I checked the oil, a qt over full so that much drained back into the pan.
Ran the starter for about 10 seconds before hitting the ignition switch, oil pressure hit 40-50 kind of fluttering back and forth, finally hit a steady 60 after about 15-20 seconds of running cold at around 1200 rpms, so I guess I'm getting air pockets in the cooler and lines.
Anyone see this as a major problem?

I'm picking up my pressure by the distributor.

ho428 · 08-10-2009, 09:02 AM

I ran the car Fri-Sat-Sun at Road Atlanta this past weekend. Ambient temps there was around 100+ degrees in the paddock, no telling what the track temps was. (What's the melting point of Asphalt?)

Anyway, I ran the car hard for three days in that heat, over 250 miles of track time and the oil temp never broke 200 degrees, the water and oil were always around 190. Sunday the water did hit 200+ but a few short shifts brought it back down.

I can't believe I drove the car that hard in that heat and never had a problem with temps. The heat did take it's toll on the ignition though, I think it cooked my coil. started having a miss above 6000 rpms. Running a 30 year old mallory dual point system, time to upgrade to a MSD I think.

But the oil cooler sure did it's thing.

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