[esahlin]

I bought some real Walnut Burlwood veneer......the actual real wood like U use for furniture or cabinets its about 1/42 thick. I then took each of my center console pieces and vacuum bagged (using epoxy as adhesive) some of the wood veneer to each piece. Then I painted it with automotive polyurethane clear coat......sand and buff. I am doing the same with my center dash piece and the center dash ashtray.....so far so good.

[rohrt]

Originally Posted by esahlin

I bought some real Walnut Burlwood veneer......the actual real wood like U use for furniture or cabinets its about 1/42 thick. I then took each of my center console pieces and vacuum bagged (using epoxy as adhesive) some of the wood veneer to each piece. Then I painted it with automotive polyurethane clear coat......sand and buff. I am doing the same with my center dash piece and the center dash ashtray.....so far so good.

Alright I'm interested in this too. The part looks great! Can you post some pics of the installation?

Where did you buy the veneer? Any Part # on it.

What prep did you do on the old pieces before you applied it?

[esahlin]

When you buy real wood veneer.....your going to have to choose the grain pattern that you like since they are all different. Even with Walnut Burlwood grain....each sheet of veneer is different. However, in some cases you can get several sheets of the same pattern.....if the seller has them bundled that way. So I chose a Walnut Burl grain pattern I liked and went with it.

U then need to get a vacuum system set up (Buy or make one) so that you can vacuum bag the part with the veneer over it. The vacuum bagging will pull the veneer around the part and make it conform flat to its shape. U have to soften the veneer prior to forming cause it will want to crack as it bends over corners and edges etc. U apply the adhesive prior to vacuum bagging and then while the adhesive (I used epoxy.....best for metal IMO) is still wet you have to place the part in the vacuum bag and draw the vacuum. Once under vacuum let the part dry for a day or two and then you can sand, paint and buff etc.

Heres where I bought my veneer and he has some good ideas on vacuum bagging, adhesives, softening the veneer. Great site. But mostly geared toward using veneer for furniture etc. The veneer is graded by quality and grain pattern so pick a high quality pattern cause it will look much better especially on a small piece in a car.

http://www.veneersupplies.com/

His information site:

http://www.joewoodworker.com/

Pics below: Still working on the big console piece and I just finished up the center dash bezel thing....The PRNDL plate and the center dash bezel havent been fully sanded and need a couple more coats of polyurethane......sand & buff.

[rohrt]

I think you found a good side job. It looks like you do excellent work.

How did you get exact cuts around the parts? Did you cut them after they were applied or before.

I don't know the first thing about vacuum bagging parts. Seen the myth buster guys vacuum some carbon fiber parts for a one man flying contraption they were putting together, but thats about it. Would you have any pics of that process?

Would contact cement or 3M spray adhesive work?

[esahlin]

U really have to use an epoxy adhesive or other glues recommended for wood to metal to get the wood to stick with a strong bond. So the contact adhesives arent really going to work well.

After, softening the wood veneer (I used the veneer softener from the veneersupplies site) the veneer wants to buckle and has a hard time staying perfectly flat.....thats where the vacuum bagging really came into play.....forces the veneer to conform to the object. Even in their original sheet form, the veneer sheets arent perfectly flat....some of the knotted areas of the grain dont like to lie flat. Now if you want to just clamp a piece of veneer to a flat surface then you probably wouldnt really need a vacuum bagging system....U could probably get it to work with just clamps and using flat wight to weigh it down well. For curvature and corners though the vacuum bagging is the way to go.

I precut the veneer close to the shape I needed it to be....leaving excess in the right places so it would fold over the edges when vacuum bagged. It helps to cut it close and them make slits in the wood near corners to help the wood fold under the vacuum....that keeps it from cracking.

It took me a couple tries on a few parts to get it to where I was happy with the results. Some of my first tries cracked a bit too much.....so I re-did them. Mine arent perfect but I was pleasantly happy with how they have come out so far.

I dont have any pics of my vacuum bag process......I fanagled some equipment together when I did some small carbon fiber parts a few years ago.

[Cammer-6]

kudos to your job on the ashtray cover.
That seems to be the worst part to cover.
Heres a pic of the material I have and a Bonny
glove box cover(same burlwood as Firebird)

[esahlin]

That looks just like the original or very very close!

[Cammer-6]

it is an exact match
I found one small area of a OEM piece that matched like a fingerprint.
It has same graining texture also.But I bought all the person had
(had been after them for years to buy and until the husband died
and woman closed the business they wouldnt sell).
I think I paid for most of his burial with the sale.

[rohrt]

Originally Posted by esahlin

U really have to use an epoxy adhesive or other glues recommended for wood to metal to get the wood to stick with a strong bond. So the contact adhesives arent really going to work well.

After, softening the wood veneer (I used the veneer softener from the veneersupplies site) the veneer wants to buckle and has a hard time staying perfectly flat.....thats where the vacuum bagging really came into play.....forces the veneer to conform to the object. Even in their original sheet form, the veneer sheets arent perfectly flat....some of the knotted areas of the grain dont like to lie flat. Now if you want to just clamp a piece of veneer to a flat surface then you probably wouldnt really need a vacuum bagging system....U could probably get it to work with just clamps and using flat wight to weigh it down well. For curvature and corners though the vacuum bagging is the way to go.

I precut the veneer close to the shape I needed it to be....leaving excess in the right places so it would fold over the edges when vacuum bagged. It helps to cut it close and them make slits in the wood near corners to help the wood fold under the vacuum....that keeps it from cracking.

It took me a couple tries on a few parts to get it to where I was happy with the results. Some of my first tries cracked a bit too much.....so I re-did them. Mine arent perfect but I was pleasantly happy with how they have come out so far.

I dont have any pics of my vacuum bag process......I fanagled some equipment together when I did some small carbon fiber parts a few years ago.

Thanks for hanging with me on these questions. I still think you could make a buisness out of this.

I have never held veneer. Is it like wall paper or cardbord? Is it easy to cut with a razon blade? The curves around the ashtray tell me it must be pretty flexible. I was thinking on the ashtray and console lid that the veneer wrap completly around the edges. I love the shine look your has with the clear coat over it. What epoxy did you end up using to apply it?

Is the vacuum process just as easy as buying a special vacuum bag and renting a vacuum pump from autozone? I have been wanting to buy one for air conditioning anyway.

[esahlin]

The veneer is about 1/42 of an inch thick so like the thickness of your thumbnail. It isnt really flexible until you spray it with the veneer softener that I bought at the veneersupplies website.....that has to soak for about 12 hours then the veneer becomes much more flexible without cracking. That veneer softener that Joe sells is the key to making it flexible. those near 90 degree bends on the console cover and even the back piece of the console were killer....and it cracked on me a bit there. But with some sanding and a little more epoxy I was able to make it look pretty nice.

As far as cutting it.....I tried the razor blade and X-acto knife route and it doesnt work well near the knotted parts of the grain.....what I found works well is some nice sharp scissors.....like a Friskas type. THe scissors actually work very very well.

epoxy adhesive: I actually used an expensive kind that I knew would work well.....but I am not sure I needed to use something so expensive. The nice thing about using an epoxy for the adhesive is that it will soak into the grain of the wood and is very sandable.

Heres the epoxy I used......its probably overkill and too expensive but Ive used it before and it works well you could probably get by with something less expensive:

http://www.systemthree.com/store/pc/T-88-c27.htm

As far as the vacuum bagging process:

This might work:
http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vac...ors-96677.html

I thought of doing it that way but I didnt......and I think that way could work instead of building or buying the more sophisticated pumps like on joewoodworker.com or other sites. Just buy the correct connections and vacuum bag supplies and u could give it a try. $12 for the pump thing at Harbor Freight....might be worth a shot. U have to make sure to buy high quality bagging material or the bag will puncture being used with sharp metal parts. Plus I had to put a bunch of styrofoam underneat and around some of the parts....near the edges cause when the vacuum bag wraps around the parts tightly around the aharp corners......it could puncture. Also, sometimes the vacuum is strong enough to want to bend the metal parts....so adding styrofoam or wood for rigidity provides support to the metal keeping it from bending. Epoxy bonds to foam but its easy to break away and sand off.....where wood or something else is a bit of a problem.

I used a FoodSaver bagging machine (I used this for my small carbon fiber projects).....that U use to vacuum bag food. FoodSaver makes their own bags and bag rolls that u can cut to a desired length. My machine only did 11 inches wide so that can be limiting on some of the console parts. For larger pieces I bought a Foodsaver jar top adapter (its hose connected to the FoodSaver machine) and made my own large vacuum bags out of vacuum bagging material. I used this method for the large console top piece and the dash center piece and the bagging material was so good and strong that the vacuum being pulled started to fold the top metal console piece in half.....actually bent it. So that wasnt good. So some of the stuff required aome experimentation.

[esahlin]

The clear coat I used is the same clear coat I am painting my car with.....its Southern Polyurethanes Universal clear. Its an awesome clear coat!. The thing about using real wood on the console pieces....it really looks way cool once U get up close to it.....thats when u can really tell its real wood. A little Lexusness for these old rides.

[Cammer-6]

I suppose for something as thick as veneer, epoxy would be needed, but Im experimenting with an adhesive called 3M control tac that has microscopic beads that break under pressure and release the adhesive.

[rohrt]

Awsome write up. Thank you.

[69TA/RAIII]

The original material was grained metal. You cant cover it with a sticker. Here is the answer. Water Transfer Printing. http://www.hydrodip.com/
We are set up for this. I just need to figure out what the correct grain pattern print we need. I'll post more info once I sort it out.

[Cammer-6]

Originally Posted by 69TA/RAIII

The original material was grained metal. You cant cover it with a sticker. Here is the answer. Water Transfer Printing. http://www.hydrodip.com/
We are set up for this. I just need to figure out what the correct grain pattern print we need. I'll post more info once I sort it out.

true in part
Some is photo etched and some is DiNoc
I have a large enough sheet to duplicate any size needed.

[esahlin]

Finally finished up the veneering.....Not perfect but came out better than I was expecting.

[boater bill]

That simply looks awesome!!!!
Probably the best looking burlwood console restoration I've seen.

[ponchjoe]

Originally Posted by 69TA/RAIII

The original material was grained metal. You cant cover it with a sticker. Here is the answer. Water Transfer Printing. http://www.hydrodip.com/
We are set up for this. I just need to figure out what the correct grain pattern print we need. I'll post more info once I sort it out.

Did this ever happen? This gentleman has not been on the forums for over a year plus.

[GregL]

Originally Posted by ponchjoe

Did this ever happen? This gentleman has not been on the forums for over a year plus.

I looked at the site. It goes on and on and on about services and pictures, etc. Some of it was a little vague. Not much actual written detail on automotive applications. I finally found their link stating they had a $500 minimum charge for services.
Seems a little steep to me. Just sayin'.
There HAS to be an affordable alternative somewhere.
Best,
Greg

[A Schab]

The last issue of High Performance Pontiac had an article about redoing a console with the water transfer method.It looked nice but the color that they used was way to light,maybe there is something that is a closer to stock match.the cost was 295.00 including a clear coat.