[aronhk_md]

PUFFER? HUFFER? 15 PSI? HR DRYER? FAT CAT? HOT INDN? PRESSURE? SQUEEZD?

Either way I think you need a graphic in the window of a scared CAT.....hair standing on end.

LOL

[marks73ta]

Rewrote an Ozzie song for my Gasser--er--Street Freak build. Just playing around.

I don’t want to stop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt_Bu...eature=related
I don’t know what you’re bitchin about
I’m taking my own direction
This thing makes me frown, ain’t gunna slow me down
It’s just a gasser outside of tradition

Buddy don’t cry I just want it up high
Like driving it up in the air
Everybody’s smirkin’ but I keep a buildin’
It looks a lot better I swear

All my life I've been over the top
I don’t know why I do it all I know is I don’t want to stop
All fired up, I'm gunna go 'til I drop
You're either in or in my way, don't stop me, this thing’s gunna rock

Why can’t they ever listen to me
It’s not a full on competition
Nothing they say is gunna change my way
Don’t need no outside stimulation

Too many suggestions but only one Rod
I don’t need another example
Don’t try to change my mind
I know I’m one of a kind
Ain’t gunna change my build behavior

All my life I've been over the top
I don't know why I do it all I know is I don't wanna stop
All fired up, I'm gonna go 'til I drop
You're either in or in my way, don't stop me, this thing’s gunna rock
All my life I've been over the top
I don't know why I do it all I know is I don't wanna stop
All fired up, I'm gonna go 'til I drop
You're either in or in my way, don't stop me this thing’s gunna rock

I think gassers rock
I think gassers rock
I think gassers rock
I think gassers rock
I think gassers rock
I think gassers rock
I think gassers rock

All my life I've been over the top
I don't know why I do it all I know is I don't wanna stop
All fired up, I'm gonna go 'til I drop
You're either in or in my way, don't stop me this thing’s gunna rock
All my life I've been over the top
I don't know why I do it all I know is I don't wanna stop
All fired up, I'm gonna go 'til I drop
You're either in or in my way, don't stop me This things gunna rock


Mark L

[ponjohn]

Some inspiration... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnRuRn5ggBA

[poison heart]

Wow!

[Tom Vaught]

Nice numbers! No reason why any properly tuned 389-455 type engine should not make excellent torque and close to 1000 HP at some point.

Tom Vaught

[marks73ta]

New updates. Paul Carter has been working on the 389 block. Sent some pics so far.

The support rods down into the block deck.



The block with new dowels for the splayed caps.



The caps all installed.



Things are getting there. Good to see progress. I'm glad to have Paul doing my short block. Mark L

[aronhk_md]

I was beginning to think maybe Mark had been abducted by aliens.....

[BruceWilkie]

Nice block shots. Hard to appreciate these 59/60 blocks until you hands on compare to a later 389/400 or 455.(late 400's are a joke) Reinforced pan rail and amount of bulk in the bulkheads is big areas of difference. Not to mention thinwall casting techniques hadnt been utilized yet. Any idea what you have for wall thickness? My 59 can safely go to 4.25+ bore.
SD455 and RA5 blocks were based off these 59/60 castings with few changes. Bell pattern and Cam tunnel primarily. Decks are pretty thick too. More strength than Fords 460 for sure(believe it or not the big Ford and the Pontiac have a bunch of similarities in good structure engineering ). With 3.75 to 4" stroke this block will live long and should handle 1000 hp+ turbocharged using modest 6000 rpm or so ceiling. Flat tappet cam prefered over stressing lifter bores with side loads from rollers. No lifter bore brace need for flat tappet due to how they work. Hi ratio rockers can get to near valve motion of rollers with the right lobes. Actually Solids can equal or better a roller from seat to .050.(SBF 7/16 stud 1.72[Scorpion] and 1.8[Crower] rockers can be fit with right valve/pushrod length) Despite needing a bell adapter these are THE production block to use if your going to push a production block. Even stock 2 bolt caps are very beefy compared to later blocks. Good stuff!

Did you know the 60 blocks got special attention to the water holes on the deck? The "new" non reverse cool system had them a bit concerned. Take a look at size shape of front holes compared to rear then compare to later castings like a 400. They were looking to balance the system as best as possible. Hole for "421 mod" was there on my 59 probably your old 370's too. Dont know when they exactly changed that.

Glad your seeing progress Mark. I'm in crawl mode at the moment.

[taff2]

I wish I had gone for the splayed caps on my turbo '59 combo (I'd be out racing by now),but truth be told,I wasn't confident that any machine shop over here would have fitted them correctly,all the shops being Chebby orientated.

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by taff2

I wish I had gone for the splayed caps on my turbo '59 combo (I'd be out racing by now),but truth be told,I wasn't confident that any machine shop over here would have fitted them correctly,all the shops being Chebby orientated.

Stock 59 caps sure are beefier than 400 caps. Plus you reinforced yours (iirc)so I think you are just as well off. Keeping twist out of the block is the key to long life IMO. Controlling cap wave from thrust loads cant hurt either. I recently realized 59 front cap same height as #2 vs 400/455 blocks. Wonder when that actually changed? My stock front/rear caps are stayin for sure, but still debating if Splayed steel caps are really going to help much. Those 59 2 bolt caps are pretty tough and certainly beefier than 400 caps.

I tested a Ford cap for fit but bolt holes are just a tid off. Milodons ductile iron caps are still straight bolt for Pontiac but splayed for 460 Ford and thought maybe just mill the step off the Milodon Ford cap might be better alternative to steel caps. You would have to fill and redrill, then mill cap and then align bore to use those caps. Probably not worth the cost at that point. Wish Milodon would revise the Pontiac caps to Splayed! The ductile iron cap on an iron block just seems logical vs steel to iron. Outer bolts on straight 4 bolt Pontiac go into under cut area of bulkhead which IMO creates a weaker package than running straight 2 bolt.

[marks73ta]

After looking at the pics again I realized that he has the no.1 cap back on the block after the dowels change, which means he must have machined the front cap by mistake. I've got a question going out to him about it now. Mark L

[ponjohn]

Can you run post 65 heads on the older blocks?

[marks73ta]

Yea, any regular pontiac head will bolt up. In the block decks are two little holes (one on each side) that have to be plugged. They transfered oil to the early heads for rocker oiling, before thru the push rod oiling. But they all bolt up. Mark L

[BruceWilkie]

Were you supposed to have a non stock front cap? My 59 front cap is pretty beefy(especially compared to 400/455) I'm definately NOT going to change it out. On my 59 #1-4 cap are all same height and near 1/4" taller than 400 caps at the bolt shoulder and center. Still thinking of staying with two bolt iron caps vs steel splayed and just build a halo with additional supports at the pan rail. Halo will get doweled to caps to get maximum effect for wave and walk control. Those 59 caps are strong! Different expansion rates of steel vs iron bugs me, not really a strength issue. IMO the 4 bolt splayed likely is stronger. Is it really just a warm fuzzy though? I'm keeping RPM to about 6k max. Its the extra clamp though that tells me 4 bolt splay even if steel will better handle high 1000+hp loads vs just two bolts clamping a good strong iron cap.
DANG,I wish Milodon Pontiac ductile iron caps were splayed, I wouldnt be so hesitant.

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by marks73ta

Yea, any regular pontiac head will bolt up. In the block decks are two little holes (one on each side) that have to be plugged. They transfered oil to the early heads for rocker oiling, before thru the push rod oiling. But they all bolt up. Mark L

65 up heads(possibly early as 62 or 63) block the hole at the gasket so you dont really have to block the oil passage. Mine were blocked off and the 59 heads had been converted to solid lifters and pushrod oiling. Motor had been built up back in 62. Early heads oiled rockers thru studs with holes in them and had a feed passage is why the block has oil available there.

Passage to head might come in handy if you wanted to build a different method of cooling valve springs/lubing rockers and really restrict flow thru the lifters/pushrods.

[poison heart]

Glad your using my old motor! GEt er done Mark

[marks73ta]

Bruce, the 2nd cap is even beefier than the '59 front cap, hence the desire to move it to the front location. But if if is what it is I'll still be happy with the front cap being stronger than the later ones. So it is still a win/win situation. I wanted the luxury of spinning it higher if it needs to. Not saying it will but if I'm going to build it with all these forged parts, I want the extra overkill so it can take more if necessary. I'm going to run a roller solid but it can be a slightly milder one versus a high HP N/A cam. I'm debating using a lifter bore brace. If the cam is milder I should not need one even though it is a roller. My 455 in now Arons TA is a 248/248 .522/.533 net lift solid flat tappet and it made good power, even with the ported 6X's. I'm thinking again around that duration but much more lift, around .650 net, with 1.65 rockers. The 406 with the 325 cfm heads and the roller should be able to easily match the 455 and still have more in it. The bigger heads may even get me more with the tune?? We'll see some day. Mark L

[taff2]

The benefit of a splayed cap I believe ,is that it pulls together the pan rails,helping to stop a crack forming from the mains saddle oil holes towards the cam tunnel. If you look at the way the forces from a descending piston are applied to the block, you will see that the force applied pushes at an angle towards the pan rails,these constant,oscillating forces flex one side of the main saddle towards the pan rail ,and are then reversed when the opposite side piston descends and flexes the other side of the main saddle towards the opposite pan rail. All that is stopping this side to side flex are the main caps locked against the dowels. A splayed cap pulls the pan rails towards the mains saddles and against the dowels, effectively 'squeezing' the main saddle together. Hence why Dart etc aftermarket blocks still use just the economical splayed caps when they could go to any configuration they want,ie,crossbolted,which may be better but is almost certainly more expensive to manufacture. Of course,the actual thickness of the area under the main saddle and out towards the pan rail has a direct effect on things, which is why the early blocks have a reputation for being stronger,they simply have more 'meat' in these areas(not to mention the side rib).
This direction of the applied forces is why a straight 4 cylinder block can take such a massive increase in power(compared to a production V8) without cracking through the mains.

[marks73ta]

Perfectly stated. This is why I wanted the splayed. I believe the same oscillations are responsible for the front/rear block face cracking you see in the late blocks. Anything you can do to lessen or eliminate that dynamic is a plus. And I don't feel the standard straight 4 bolt caps can do that. The open crankcase (lifter bore area) may even quell some of those oscillations because it can flex a little with out cracking, but the bottom of the crankcase must be stable. Although the shear strength of the filled (cast in) lifter bore area is still better idea. Just my opinion on the lifter area thing. Mark L

[BruceWilkie]

MY 59 FRONT CAP IS BIG, SAME SIZE AS 2,3,4 In fact 1/4" taller at bolt shoulders and outer circumference all 4 caps than 69 and 76 caps I originally compared them to. Just sold a set of 59 4 bolt caps that were identical heights except the extra bolt hole provisions on 2,3,4

My old 4 bolt was about 3 months newer date codes and both 532000 castings actually cast in 58. Vin codes indicate the 2 bolt went into a Sept 58 1959 car and the 4 bolt went into a 59 in April 59.
Mystery I see is my #1 cap says 351375 yours clearly ends in 375 but I cant make out the first 3 digits for sure but they LOOK to be same 351 # WTH???