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#41
11-28-2010, 08:34 PM
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A little humor for you all
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#42
11-28-2010, 08:45 PM
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You two argue like you're married...
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#43
11-28-2010, 08:57 PM
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In the original post the question was asked about an eagle crank with 4.25" stroke making over 600 hp...To me making over 600 hp is a racing engine...which probably recieved expensive parts...Cliff R. said it best why put a $200 crank in a $10,000 dollar race engine? ...I also agree with Brian...get rid of the rotating weight...aluminum rods to me were worth the extra money...JMO....Gene
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'66 GTO 3600lbs w/driver, e-heads,474 N/A . best 60' 1.305...best 1/8th ...6.205 @ 110.14...best 1/4 9.794 @ 136.15 through mufflers on e-85 |
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#44
11-28-2010, 10:05 PM
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Back on topic. So WHO is actually using an Eagle cast crank in their motors right now without issues? I am trying to build a pump gas 461 for my street/strip 68 GTO. Looking to get over 600 hp out of it. So far I have a 68 2-bolt 400 block, 4.155 Ross pistons, thinking of getting PPR's new A beam rods, Eagle 4.250 cast crank, Northwind intake, and a Lunati 255/263 solid roller cam. Planning on getting a set of heads capable of getting over 600 hp with my combo. Still a long ways off but I am just wondering if the Eagle cast crank will be OK for my combo or if I should just get a forged one? Seems like your on borrowed time with a factory block over 700 hp anyway so why wouldn't the Eagle cast crank be fine under that in a factory block and save the forged for the aftermarket blocks? I trust Mr P-body's judgement and P-dude's also as they have a lot of experience with this. I trust what Cliff has to say also.
Thanks |
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#45
11-28-2010, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
FWIW, my new stroker (468) has an Eagle cast crank, but isn't in the car yet
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Kenny Cincinnati, Oh 1971 Ventura II 400 .060 Eagle Rods |
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#46
11-28-2010, 11:04 PM
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My 68 Super Street Firebird has an Eagle cast crank rotating assembly from Butler with Eagle rods. Makes 660 hp and has been sprayed a few times in the last couple of years with no problems. My 63 Tempest uses the Eagle forged rotating assembly aslo from Butler and has also worked real well. That said, I wish I'd gone with the forged crank in the Firebird also....JUST because I'm sure it's better, BUT I've not had any issues with either.
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1965 TriPower GTO, 1967 GTO, 1969 GTO, 1969 Judge, 1972 GTO, 1977 Smokey and the Bandit, 1989 TA ProStreet, 1968 Firebird NHRA 10.90 racecar, 1963 Tempest S/Gas |
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#47
11-28-2010, 11:06 PM
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I also believe machine shop/ builders probably make a big difference.
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1965 TriPower GTO, 1967 GTO, 1969 GTO, 1969 Judge, 1972 GTO, 1977 Smokey and the Bandit, 1989 TA ProStreet, 1968 Firebird NHRA 10.90 racecar, 1963 Tempest S/Gas |
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#48
11-29-2010, 10:18 AM
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Jimmy is correct. The MOST important aspect is the person installing the crank.
Corey Thompson, 540-plus passes, low 10s, pan has never been off. David DeRegt (RoadRageDavid), 200 MPH '68 Firebird. 10K street miles. No issues. Greg Miller, 300-plus passes in 8 years, 650 HP, no issues (an "original Butler crank" with the snout and rear counterweight "fixed"). Dan Steward, low 11s (11.17) on 93 octane, 3,800 lb. car. 20K-plus street miles, 200-plus passes. No issues. At CVMS, we build approximately 25-30 Pontiac engines per year. Last year, fully 1/2 were "strokers". Two were forgings. When you take what others have to say, be sure you know how large their "knowledge base" is. Ken Keefer is probably the only Pontiac shop here (PY) that really builds more Pontiac engines than we do, and he says EXACTLY what I say. We (CVMS) also built no less than 10 Chevys last year equipped with Eagle cranks. Bill King was track champ at VMP last season with an Eagle 400 SB forging. 10.40s ALL YEAR. In 11 years of selling Eagle cranks, have not seen ONE of the notorious "thrust face" cranks. These guys that "hobby build" or assemble an engine here and there, need new stories. It's really quite simple. If your engine will make more than 700 HP (now or in "future plans"), the forging is called for. Otherwise, the casting is fine. And Eagle IS the "premium" of the imports. This coming from a shop that sells a customer A)what they need and B)what they want. We are NOT "tied" to any one vendor for these parts. Unfortunately, Eagle's "coverage" for the Pontiac is not as complete as some others. We use the RPM stuff to "fill in". It is also quite good, and offers some "special" dimensions like 3" mains and standard Pontiac rod journals w/4.21" stroke, cast (handy when building a 455 from a 400), and an excellent 4" stroke forging, one of which is in Rick Holladay's mid 10 second '65 GTO at 434 CID. 125 passes this past year, no issues. Another of which will be in RoadRageDavid's new 475. And yah, Gach and Ken should get a room... (:- Jim |
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#49
11-29-2010, 10:24 AM
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Yea, but if they did get a room, Gach will probably make up another story, like "Kenny took me out to dinner first and all the cheap bastard bought me was franks and beans". Oh wait, he's already used that story, when he said Nunzi invited him over for dinner at his home.
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Just a blind squirrel looking for a nut. |
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#50
11-29-2010, 11:00 AM
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Mongo, they'd both take Viagra and then fight over who gets to be the Man...
 Eagle makes different quality cranks for the other big brands. My friend Randy has probably 500+ passes on an Eagle forged Assembly (crank, rods) in a SBC. He's running 5.50's on a 275 DR at 3300+ lbs and never, ever, had a crank issue. Another friend, Ben has an Eagle forged crank and rods (not aluminum) short block in his 572 BBC and has 3 years and 200+ passes with 3 systems without a single issue. I'm not smart enough to tell you the exact differences between the metals used in the different cranks, others here can do that. Like Tom Vaught says, watch a crank spin at 6000 Rpms and you'll be scared to ever rev yours again. It's the Prep and the Block, Pontiac blocks are weak causing most of the issues (mechanical) tune ups and correct parts are another big part. |
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#51
11-29-2010, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Jim is right and as I have stated before. And having build well over a thousand engines in my lifetime. Yes we do All American Muscle Iron also. Including past Short Track champions in all classes here. Mud racing, street racing, If it has 4 wheels I'm usually involved. LOL Over a certain hp and stroke one has to look at forgings or even billets. But because they are offered doesn't mean they belong in ALL builds. Cast cranks have a great market place and shouldn't be thrown to the wolfs. Pontiac lived with that as an only choice for over 40 years and did rather well. Time to move on, I have made my "Opinion" known.
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#52
11-29-2010, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
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#53
11-29-2010, 12:12 PM
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I wonder of the Factory-developed Balance cut into PMD cranks is a smooth-Rev advantage?
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#54
11-29-2010, 04:06 PM
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I think Jimmy Jammal was spinning a 4.21 eagle cast crank 8000+ rpm in a 400 block.
car ran 8.08 with e-heads with NO power adders. This is probably an exception. |
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#55
11-30-2010, 01:42 AM
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I ran a 4.21 Eagle in my 462 (howard Aluminum rods @ 7200 shifts) @ 643 HP 60 runs balanced & drop in and magnafluxed perfect after. Put on the improved heads dynoed 776. Pulled the heads after testing and went to an IA w/ a billit unit. 535 made 813 with the basically the same top end, and about 85 extra ft lbs of tq.
Must of got a good one... JK
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Beers Bikes Babes and Pontiacs Rule!!!  63 Lemans in the 9's race 66 GTO HT Cruiser 06 Triumph Rocket III TURBO! 2300 CC Bad boy KTM 525 Dirt Terrorizer POLARIS 900 RZR 10 GMC SLT Duramax Haul anything anywhere http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...app_2392950137 |
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#56
12-02-2010, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
 Funny when it lasts for 2-3 posts, not so when its pages long....My little 467 430/470tq motor uses an Eagle kit as well. But then I'm way safe as I'm way under powered....
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http://www.christransam78.com/ |
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#57
12-02-2010, 04:12 PM
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For while there some of you were getting a little cranky
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Tim Corcoran |
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#58
12-02-2010, 04:29 PM
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Guess i need not dispel fact from fiction and not post? The trouble you have is a lot of people will believe everything that is posted not knowing because of lack of experience. They are not dumb, just out of the loop as far as what where and how. etc. Just get flustered when a person post what will happen when an issue does occur and it just bull. That they are all junk, yada, yada. I have sold and installed well over a 100 of just the 4.250 overseas cranks and with an under 5% issue problem. Wish that would occur with all the products on the market now-a-days. If it's mechanical or man made, it can have a problem. |
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#59
12-02-2010, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
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#60
12-03-2010, 09:50 PM
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Sure seems to me there is a lot of variables involved to be able to put a limit on any Hi performance part, Ive seen ****e blow up at 300hp thats suppose to be good to 600hp and stuff that "supposedly" wont live 5 minutes in a engine over 600hp live damn near forrever LOL, Weight and/or RPM kill Parts more than HP IMO
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D.S.R.E. Your NW Pontiac Street/Strip Engine Builder, Specializing in Cylinder Head,Intake Manifold,and Exhaust Manifold Porting services and Building the Most Efficient stock rebuilds to Hi HP Pump Gas and Race Combinations for Pontiac,Buicks,Olds,FE Fords,385 Series and HP Gen 3 and 4 LS engines! 2006 silvy Z71 4X4,383 LS 600+hp NA Shared Toy-66 Lemans 470cid by me 537hp 580tq-manifolds, 570hp 590tq-2"headers,custom cam,rpm intake, mild e-heads, Looks stock ;-} |
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