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Tony Goat · 01-07-2011, 10:42 PM

Hey Fellas,

I just pulled the head on the 400 out of my 69 MT GTO. I assumed (first mistake) that the ARP head bolts I ordered from summit would have the studs on them to mount the rocker arm oil deflectors. I was wrong. I have to imagine that Pontiac put these deflectors on for a pretty good reason. Are you guys leaving them off when you replace head bolts or are you getting the factory style bolts with the studs for mounting them?

Second question. When I pulled my head I failed to keep track of what push rods went with what valves (second mistake). How big of an issue is this, or is any order fine?

Thanks for your help,

Tony

PaulatFast · 01-07-2011, 11:01 PM

Oil deflectors are not needed, but neither are ARP head bolts...

The only things that need kept in order are the lifters, and then only if they are to be re-used.

Tony Goat · 01-07-2011, 11:08 PM

I hate to open this can of worms, but are you suggesting that the reuse of my stock bolts is acceptable and thus renders the ARP bolts unnecessary? I was under the impression that the head bolts were single use only?

Thanks for the response.

Tony

Bet Winner · 01-07-2011, 11:47 PM

I would check the bolt threads and reuse them.

I believe the oil deflectors allow much of the oil to fall on the rocker so it lubes the rocker and ball. The rocker and ball wear together so I would keep them as a set if you can--same with the lifters being matched with a certain cam lobe as Paul said.

I would be less worried about keeping the pushrods in the same positions.

PaulatFast · 01-08-2011, 12:25 AM

Pontiac headbolts can be used over and over and over... Just check them for damaged threads as mentioned above... For the record I have never kept rockers and thier balls together, and never seen a problem. It sure won't hurt to do that if it makes you feel better.

goatnut · 01-08-2011, 10:58 PM

I used the newer 1970 up chrome valve covers with the oil drippers and used the new ARP bolts. I did not want to reuse 40 year old bolts on a fresh engine. New ARP bolt kit and a new balancer are cheap insurance compared to replacing the engine due to failure of old parts. Although I have never heard of the head bolts(Pontiac) failing I knew my engine had been overhauled before I got it and didn't want to chance it.

PaulatFast · 01-09-2011, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goatnut

I did not want to reuse 40 year old bolts on a fresh engine. New ARP bolt kit and a new balancer are cheap insurance compared to replacing the engine due to failure of old parts. Although I have never heard of the head bolts(Pontiac) failing I knew my engine had been overhauled before I got it and didn't want to chance it.

You are correct... Pontiac head bolts do not fail and cause the engine to be replaced... EVER!

Tony Goat · 01-10-2011, 04:50 PM

Thanks guys,

All of the threads looked fine so they were cleaned and reused. And now I know!

Tony

goatnut · 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulatFast

You are correct... Pontiac head bolts do not fail and cause the engine to be replaced... EVER!

No but they can be over torqued and stretched. They are nothing special that I am aware of.

PaulatFast · 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goatnut

No but they can be over torqued and stretched. They are nothing special that I am aware of.

I'm not arguing with you, if you feel better about your motor with ARP bolts that's great. They certainly aren't going to hurt anything.

After twenty five years of building Pontiac motors I have NEVER seen a Pontiac head bolt stretch. EVER. Can they? I am no metallurgist but I assume they could, under the right circumstances... Remember, newer cars are usually sealing aluminum heads to a cast block, the two different materials expand and contract at different rates, these motors have a much harder time keeping the heads sealed properly. One way they try to keep the seal is by using a more "elastic" bolt that keeps the pressure on the gasket throughout the heat cycle. These bolts fatigue much more quickly than the bolts used on older cars. Alot of times these bolts are considered a one time use item.

I assume you have ARP main studs, rod bolts, intake bolts, flywheel bolts, cam and crank bolts, etc.? Because they all could be overtorqued and stretched as well.

goatnut · 01-11-2011, 08:49 PM

Yes sir all new ARP bolts/fasteners.

I to have been wrenching and building engines for over 25yrs and yes most all are everyday driver type cars new stuff. You got me on the poncho experience I have only put together a few. The differance between my build and probably most on this board was more reliablilty than originallity. I have seen more than enough failures due to reuseing old balancers and such. Like you I am not here to argue just personal preference.

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