[70UglyBird]

Uhh no, if my wife had any idea there would be even more meaningless shoes in our closet.

As far as torque What does a stock 455 put down? compared to a stock LS2? I should get out my RWTQ graph from my LSX with similar cubes, and it was built for docile street driving, it wasn't like it was weak. You have to compare apples to apples, there are some fast Toyotas out there too with enough money.

That said again the big Pontiacs are amazing, from the lsx world the small and big block chevys are not that impressive. The numbers these relatively "minor" modded Pontiacs make you take notice and the over the top builds are just that amazing.

[bobzdar]

Originally Posted by 70UglyBird

Uhh no, if my wife had any idea there would be even more meaningless shoes in our closet.

As far as torque What does a stock 455 put down? compared to a stock LS2? I should get out my RWTQ graph from my LSX with similar cubes, and it was built for docile street driving, it wasn't like it was weak. You have to compare apples to apples, there are some fast Toyotas out there too with enough money.

That said again the big Pontiacs are amazing, from the lsx world the small and big block chevys are not that impressive. The numbers these relatively "minor" modded Pontiacs make you take notice and the over the top builds are just that amazing.

There were a bunch of variations on the 455 through the years, so it depends on which 455 you're talking about. If you're talking about the general 455, 9.5:1 unported dport, raIV cammed combo that is popular, it's probably 380-400 lbs ft at the wheels.

[bobzdar]

In regards to ls1 vs. pontiac, I've driven a couple of ls1 cars. I drove an '04 GTO with 6 speed and an '01 firehawk with auto. I've also driven an ls2 powered 'vette 6 speed. Compared to my trans am with 400/4 speed, they were not as fun, though the 'vette was pretty impressive performance wise. They all had smoother power delivery where mine was peakier. The 6 speed shifters were ok, better than my St10 for sure but not great. The firehawk was a nice car, I almost bought it and would have if it were a stick. In terms of putting that engine in an old pontiac, I guess I don't see the point. I got 20mpg out of my 400 and it was more fun to drive than any of the ls powered cars, overall it's not as comfortable a car to drive every day for sure, but not much of that would have to do with the engine. I think an lsx would have been worth a couple of mpg vs. the 400 in my car given the same gearing, but not really worth the effort.

If the car is a potential daily driver, the lsx makes sense. If not, it really doesn't. You can make as much or more power for the same money with a pontiac and it makes for a much easier install (until you have to tighten the center header bolts).

Your observation that it's 'magic' to make power with a Pontiac isn't right, but it's also not as simple as opening a catalog and picking out a few parts and slapping it together (aka the Chevy way). That's a big part of the draw as there are a ton of different ways to go about it - do you go with a 3.75"/4"/4.25" stroke, do you go with ported factory heads or aluminum (and round port or d-port, or even tunnel port now), what cam matches up with all of that, which carb/intake combination works with it all, etc. I keep trying to talk myself into building a 100hp/liter pontiac but then I realize I don't have a car that could handle that kind of power.

[mechanic17]

Backing up a bit guys, I just want to interject that I think Gearbanger's $600 for machine work to a Poncho motor was low and that tended to underrate the budget there. I was recently ripped off (admittedly) at $1800 for the whole going through (decking, line bore/hone, the works) but I think the true average will be somewhere in between--maybe $1200.