[DEIVIONCRX]

After i blast the car, how can i keep the good metal from surface rusting while i fix the rust holes. Its probably going to be a good months worth of work at my available pace to weld up and patch all the holes. Its in a weather protected shop but no heat or moisture control. Id like to do all the metal, and filler work at once then shoot it with primer, instead of blast, prime then have to go back and remove primer as i want to weld.

[TA-71]

Try After Blast from Eastwood.

http://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-afterblast.html

[Nikwho]

I don't know if it is the most universally accepted method, but I used phosphoric acid on my car. I was using it at first to remove some surface rust. If you leave it on it creates a layer that prohibits rusting. I ended up misting it over the rest of my car that is sitting in bare metal over the winter. My wife pulls in and out of the garage in her car and all of the snow drips off as it melts. So my garage has lots of moisture in it over the winter. Not a touch of surface rust has formed on it! It is used and sold as concrete etcher at home depot. Its with the paint thinner in the paint section. It sells for only about $15/gallon. Works great. Its cheap, too! I think its called "Phosphoretch", Home Depot sells it in an opaque container with a yellow label.

[DEIVIONCRX]

Perfect.

[2002Z4CSS]

Many places will coat a freshly blasted body in epoxy primer until they can work on it.

[dhutton]

Epoxy primer is the way to go in my opinion.

Don

[DEIVIONCRX]

I will be working on it immediately, but the car has a good section of rust on the bottom, plus what all ill uncover when i blast, but only being able to work on it 1-2 days a week, it will take some time to get it all done.

[arbys]

Originally Posted by Nikwho

I don't know if it is the most universally accepted method, but I used phosphoric acid on my car. I was using it at first to remove some surface rust. If you leave it on it creates a layer that prohibits rusting. I ended up misting it over the rest of my car that is sitting in bare metal over the winter. My wife pulls in and out of the garage in her car and all of the snow drips off as it melts. So my garage has lots of moisture in it over the winter. Not a touch of surface rust has formed on it! It is used and sold as concrete etcher at home depot. Its with the paint thinner in the paint section. It sells for only about $15/gallon. Works great. Its cheap, too! I think its called "Phosphoretch", Home Depot sells it in an opaque container with a yellow label.

Is this the product that you were referring to:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053

[beargfr]

If the car will be staying inside and out of the elements, I really like Picklex20. Spray it on with a spray bottle, move it around with a small paint brush, let it dry a few minutes then wipe off the excess. After it has dried for at least 24 hours, it's safe to spray epoxy primer over.

Bear

[arbys]

It looks like Pickelex20 is 10 times the price of the Phosphor Etch.

[Old Goat 67]

Since I found out about this stuff, I use it all the time.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...ighlight=gibbs

http://www.gibbsbrand.net/home.html
http://www.gibbsbrandlubricant.com/

[Nikwho]

Originally Posted by arbys

Is this the product that you were referring to:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053

Yes, thats the stuff! I have had great success with it. I sprayed down my whole car that is all bare metal and I have still not used a gallon on it! I use a respirator when working with it, its pretty strong stuff!

[russosborne]

I was going to suggest Picklex as well, but that home depot stuff is much more affordable. I am going to be blasting my frame soon and will give that stuff a shot.
Thanks,
Russ

[fsted]

i have done 3 restorations in the past several years, down to bare metal. i have used picklex 20 to stop flash rust, however it is expensive and when you have a whole car shell down to metal it becomes alot to manage. picklex leaves a residue that the manufacture say you can prime over, i would not recommend this as you can have adhesion problems,i have. so you will have to sand the residue off. also some primers dont like to be sprayed over acid based products, more adhesion problems. most professional shop recommend stripping and epoxy immediately, thats what i will do next time.you would think having to strip fresh primer from an area you need to repair would be alot of work, but you will end up resanding the entire car atleast once after stripping if you try to stop surface rust. what about not stripping the car until after the rust repairs have been made. also on stripping the car blasting will leave sand or soda in every nook and cranny. you will likely never get it all out of the car. its a real pain in the butt. good luck with youre project. ED

[PaulatFast]

Paint manufacturers such as Barry at SPI will tell you to NEVER spray epoxy over any of that stuff. On occasion we have used phosphorus based spray to eat away at post blasting surface rust. We always sand it off before spraying the epoxy, leaving it only in the pits, haven't had an issue yet. DON'T TELL BARRY!

[Nikwho]

I agree! Don't spray over it. But you can use it on your car. Right before you spray, clean with surface prep and get it all off. It will come off easily.

[davidgto]

I am no body/paint expert, but trying to learn. I am doing a 65 GTO. Roof had some paint adhesion problems from a paint job 5 years ago. I just got the car. I have stripped the roof and can see the tell tell signs of rust. There is no pitting, but it has the black rusty bloached where the paint had lifted previously. I bought Picklex to treat the rust. I have seen good reviews that say you cover right over the Picklex with epoxy and then I see someone saying ,never do that. I do not want to put in all that time and have a paint adhesion problem down the road. I am bewildered as to what to do.

BEWILDERED DAVE

[beargfr]

I understand, Dave --- that was one of the most frustrating things to me when I started trying to learn what I needed to know to paint my 69. Ask one question, you'll get 18 different answers and more than one will "sound good". With paint/body there's usually more than one way to do it and lots of times you'll get answers based on personal experience, sometimes just hearsay.

I agree with what was said about Barry at SPI He'll tell you not to put their epoxy over anything but clean bare metal. Anything else and you're taking a chance. It's not a guarantee you'll have a problem, also it's not a guarantee that you won't - basically you're on your own if you do.

I can only tell you what I did on my 69 this past summer, which was the very first paint job I've ever done. It still looks good to me and I'm happy with the results, and I've not had any sort of adhesion or any other problem with it so far.

I used Picklex20 on the bare metal, applied with a spray bottle and spread with a cheap paint brush. I let it sit for a few minutes then wiped off the excess with a clean rag. I let it dry/cure for a minimum of 24 hours in 70-degree+ temp, then I covered it with SPI Epoxy primer and went from there with the rest of the work. My "teachers/mentors" over on the Paintucation forum recommended that procedure to me. They were very specific about the 24 hour deal, since they had experienced adhesion problems in cases where that rule wasn't followed --- but never when it was. These were guys who've done a lot more paint jobs than I'll ever see, and I trust their judgement.

I'm pretty sure I've got a good result myself following that, but in the interest of trying to be as honest and as objective as I can, this paint job is still only 6 monhs old and has yet to see the heat of a Texas summer, so there's still a chance I could have problems. I don't think I will, but we'll see.

Best advice I can give you on your own self-education would be to grab yourself a copy of Kevin Tetz's Paintucation videos and also get hooked up on the Paintucation forum. I credit both of those with the level of success I've had so far on my black 69. I did 100% of the paint/body work myself, in my garage, and it was my first ever.

Bear

[paint guy]

Here's some info I've gleaned from 35+ years in the industrial paint industry: First off, phosphoric acid is routinely used to remove rust from steel, but is done under controlled conditions. When most of our cars were made, they were dipped in an acid solution, but his was accompanied by a caustic /cleaner, a neutralizing solution, a conversion coating, and various rinses. This was done in carefully titrated tanks, under controlled temperature, with constant Ph monitoring, etc., and is usaully referred to as a "5 or 7 stage washing system". It is a far cry from buying a "one-step" cleaner/etch product to be wiped on and off with a cloth or similar, and to just go to a hardware store and buy phosphoric acid (what strength?) and wipe it on and off steel... the fact is, residual acid left on steel will react with epoxy primer, that is why most manufacturers for consumer use DO NOT want you to use any product under thier primer, they have no control over what it is, the application, how much is left unreacted on the steel, etc. And I will guarantee you, if primers fails (even from improperly prepared substrates), most peoples first reaction is to blame the primer/paint, not themselves or the pretreatment product. A tried and true method to ensure primer/paint longevity is to remove all the rust (preferably by mechanical means in a home-restorer environment), then immediately prime without handling the blasted substrate (use clean gloves). That being said, I have used a one-step cleaner-pretreatment product with good success in areas that I could not effectively blast to a "near-white" surface. Keep in mind that classic cars are usually not subjected to the harshest of environments anymore, either, so while the 7-stage wash with the red-lead primer corrosion resistance performance is virtually unattainable to the home-restorer, it is also not needed on a car that might see rain a half-dozen times a year, and no road salt (a killer for corrosion control). I know there are some who will say "I've used phosphoric acid for years and never had a problem", and my response is "Good, I'm glad to hear it". But the fact of the matter is, acid and amine (in epoxy primer) WILL react, and its not a beneficial reaction to what you're trying to accomplish, so why take the chance? Hope this helps someone.

[russosborne]

Well, one obvious (or not apparently) solution would be to NOT use epoxy paint over anything you use the phosphate stuff on.


Personally I am probably going to have to use Rustoleum whether or not I use the phosphate on my frame and bottom of car since that is affordable for me, .

Russ