[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by bigunde

One more "small" Detroit for ya

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp-qcZr_Wrw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UTbY...eature=related

(now that's a tractor )

[hurryinhoosier62]

Brad,

Kinda of. It has a common crankcase with 4 individual heads (3 cylinders per head). BIG MOTHER!!

[yak]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvlyU...eature=related

[bigunde]

Originally Posted by yak

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvlyU...eature=related

Did you hear the narrator? Talking about POT MEET KETTLE!!!!!!!!! And what is a FORDMECHANIC?

But here is a nice burnout attempt. Not quite one of those harmonic balancer destroying SRT-10's either. LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCnwzGjhSBo

[yak]

Originally Posted by bigunde

Did you hear the narrator? Talking about POT MEET KETTLE!!!!!!!!! And what is a FORDMECHANIC?

But here is a nice burnout attempt. Not quite one of those harmonic balancer destroying SRT-10's either. LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCnwzGjhSBo

i used that same bar to put my balancer back on my srt 10 one time

[hurryinhoosier62]

If you've ever seen the crankshaft out of a Chrysler V-10, you'll understand why!!

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

big hammer,

You REALLY shouldn't compare a 3208 (I've machined HUNDREDS!!) to the 3408. The 3208 is a MID-RANGE diesel, while the 3408 is a HEAVY diesel engine. Apparently, no one has ever told you the Detroit 8V71s and 8V92 were some of the MOST POPULAR and DURABLE OTR powerplants EVER built. Do YOU know WHY Detroit Diesel stopped building them? It had NOTHING to do with durability; they couldn't meet emission specs.How much do you know about locomotives or tow boats? Growing up in S. central Indiana along the banks of the Ohio, you learn a great deal about tow boats. Jeffboat(largest inland shipyard in the U.S.) builds them regularly. They are normally powered by EMD(ElectroMotive Division) V-12s or V-16s (4,500hp -7,000hp). Ever seen one? I have.I used to build the fuel injectors for them along with the older ALCOs. Look at your arm. That's how long the SOBs are. Additionally, they weigh around 100lbs EACH.Care to guess HOW LONG these engines stay in service? ON AVERAGE, 20yrs. The old Fairbanks Morse inline compounds averaged around 5-7yrs. I presume you're going to assert that these engines(EMDs and ALCOs) don't see any loads, aren't you? The average tow boat displaces around 200 tons(400,000lbs). An average barge displaces around 75-100 tons depending on length(144,000-200,000lbs) EMPTY. The AVERAGE 30 barge tow has a total displacement of 3200 tons EMPTY. This same tow can handle a load equal to that carried by 150 tractor/trailer combos. That's 9 MILLION POUNDS!! Remember, these are those "unreliable" V style diesels you CONTINUE to opine about. Yes, the current crop of Class 8, inline diesels are far more powerful and reliable than their V-style predecessors. HOW MANY years of re-engineering and federal mandates did it take to achieve these numbers? I can remember when the NT-855 Cummins was the "hottest" inline you could get and it STILL gave up nearly 70hp to the 8V92s. (250 vs 318). We had customers we built K1250 and K2500 series Cummins for because NO OTHER inline was powerful and RELIABLE enough. They modified their tractors(lengthed the nose by 2ft) to fit these monsters under the hoods. We also built 12V71s for others that needed more power. I'll close with this point. The biggest V-12s I have personally machined are the 12V149 Detroits. We had a contract with Amax Coal to rebuild these monsters. They were used to supply electrical power to coal mines(underground) in S.Illinois. These engines ran 24/7. Even if the mines weren't in operation, the engines and generators had to run to keep the water pumps operating. Try THAT with an inline!!

i still say you haven't operated a piece of heavy machinery in your life. everyone laughs about weak and ****ty the old v8's were. the old detroits were slobbering oil leaking torqueless POS engines. you had to keep them screaming at high rpm to pull anything. try to lug them and they fall flat on their face. yes in a small load application they will run a long time, but then again so will a 6.2 gm diesel.

[bigunde]

Originally Posted by big hammer

i still say you haven't operated a piece of heavy machinery in your life. everyone laughs about weak and ****ty the old v8's were. the old detroits were slobbering oil leaking torqueless POS engines. you had to keep them screaming at high rpm to pull anything. try to lug them and they fall flat on their face. yes in a small load application they will run a long time, but then again so will a 6.2 gm diesel.

Were these maintained engines? I do know they leaked bad but that was their thing.



Popular Horsepower Ratings (8V-71)
866 ft·lbf @ 1400 rpm 318 hp (237 kW) governed at 2100 rpm
990 ft·lbf @ 1400 rpm 305-350 hp governed at 2100 rpm (turbocharged)
1064 ft·lbf @ 1200 rpm 305-370 hp governed at 1800-2100 rpm (turbocharged/aftercooled)


8V92

http://www.barringtondieselclub.co.z...oitDiesel.html

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

Brad,

Kinda of. It has a common crankcase with 4 individual heads (3 cylinders per head). BIG MOTHER!!

You ever mess with any of those Allis Chalmers 844 cid diesels ?

Originally Posted by bigunde

Were these maintained engines? I do know they leaked bad but that was their thing.



Popular Horsepower Ratings (8V-71)
866 ft·lbf @ 1400 rpm 318 hp (237 kW) governed at 2100 rpm
990 ft·lbf @ 1400 rpm 305-350 hp governed at 2100 rpm (turbocharged)
1064 ft·lbf @ 1200 rpm 305-370 hp governed at 1800-2100 rpm (turbocharged/aftercooled)


8V92

http://www.barringtondieselclub.co.z...oitDiesel.html

2 strokes are low in torque, they need to run at WOT

The 71 seried Detroits were about the toughest most long lasting engines ever built.

Their leaking IMO was also due to the fact from the factory Detroits were the most

poorly balanced engines.

He fails to mention some inline 6 diesels were known for crank failures as well (usually

around the snout) and the V8 cranks tend to be stronger being shorter & more ridgid -

[68gtoMN]

Originally Posted by The Champ

If a truck is not registered, it can not be legally operated on public roads. Ford has already admitted that Chevy has more registrations. It's an accepted fact that Ford built more trucks.

So, while you claim that I have made an illogical syllogism, you have no form of statistical analysis to validate your claim (and Ford's) that Ford has more trucks over 250,000 miles.

Although you tried to claim that the vehicle's registration would document the mileage and prove this assumption, it was a claim that was very easy to discredit, and more of an illogical syllogism than I have made here.

Perhaps the registration does not carry the mileage. I concede the point. However, the title would and it would be possible to perform such a search, although difficult. Ford has admitted that Chevy has more registrations? OK - please provide a link to this information for all to see. It might be true or it might just be a claim - we'll know when we see your proof. Remember, the burden of proof rests with the party making the claim. I will refrain from repeating Ford's claim of more vehicle with more than 200,000 miles as I do not readily have access to this data.

Now to examine your conclusions based on "thin evidence" - here's where you fail.

Having more registrations = being more dependable. Really?

• Where is your empirical evidence to support this claim?
• How is "more dependable" defined here?
• What is the criteria on which this claim is made?
• Are you separating consumer use from industrial/commercial use?

With 40 percent market share, Ford is America’s commercial truck leader

http://media.ford.com/article_displa...ticle_id=29958
Ford has, by a HUGE margin, the highest percentage of ambulance (van chassis) market and has continued to update the vehicles vs. only slight revisions from the 1995 Chevy redesign

But let's again examine the claim of "longest lasting" and "most dependable". Neither can be proven by registrations alone without major assumptions; hence, the questions above.

• How were trucks used - purpose for purchase?
• What is the average mileage of each brand of consumer/commercial truck?
• Does having more registrations equate to more dependable? That's much too great a reach. E.g. if a Chevy owner drives less miles per year, he will theoretically have a longer "assumed life" for the vehicle. Does that make it more dependable?

Back to original debate about engines - how does the new Ecoboost engine from Ford stack up against the established large displacement engines of the others? Quite well, I believe. Equal or better total power, higher usable torque available sooner in RPM range and across wider RPM range, higher payload rating, higher towing rating, smaller, lighter package, great fuel economy without sacrificing "working nature" of truck. In all, Ford did a great job and I salute them.

If you like a Chevy better - keep buying them. Again, this is YOUR liking, your money and your decision. The Ecoboost engine family, however, is a technological Tour De Force.

[hurryinhoosier62]

bigunde and Brad,

What we have in big hammer is the TYPICAL "throttle jockey". big hammer, you are correct: I am NOT a heavy equipment operator. I AM the engine machinist that had to
repair all the damage that "gorillas" like you did to perfectly good engines because you're either too ignorant or too lazy to give an engine a LITTLE respect!! Oh, I've seen guys like you. You try to move loads so large the hydraulic lines nearly burst just to save a little time. You'll jump into a cold piece of machinery and expect it to perform flawlessly WITHOUT a single minute of warm-up. When all the abuse you have given the equipment catches up with you, you "bad-mouth" the equipment!! Like Brad pointed out, ALL Detroits( except the series 40,60 and 80 engines) are TWO-STROKES. Whether it's a 3-53 or a 16V149, they ALL operate at WOT. He(Brad) is also correct on the oil leaking problems. Those engines shake!! IF you change out the gaskets on a REGULAR basis, the problem goes away.BTW...I've got an uncle that is a retired operating engineer. He was operating heavy equipment before you were an itch in your daddy's pants. He's used Detroit powered equipment for years and NEVER complained, but he also take care of his equipment. Bud has a 1968 model D8 Cat that has NEVER had the bottom end rebuilt,even after the dozer sat in 10ft of water for a YEAR!! He farms, so he owns tractors. His newest tractor(a Massey Fergeson) is nearly 40 yrs old. It's NEVER had to have the bottom end rebuilt. See a pattern?

[sleepy]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

bigunde and Brad,

What we have in big hammer is the TYPICAL "throttle jockey". big hammer, you are correct: I am NOT a heavy equipment operator. I AM the engine machinist that had to
repair all the damage that "gorillas" like you did to perfectly good engines because you're either too ignorant or too lazy to give an engine a LITTLE respect!! Oh, I've seen guys like you. You try to move loads so large the hydraulic lines nearly burst just to save a little time. You'll jump into a cold piece of machinery and expect it to perform flawlessly WITHOUT a single minute of warm-up. When all the abuse you have given the equipment catches up with you, you "bad-mouth" the equipment!! Like Brad pointed out, ALL Detroits( except the series 40,60 and 80 engines) are TWO-STROKES. Whether it's a 3-53 or a 16V149, they ALL operate at WOT. He(Brad) is also correct on the oil leaking problems. Those engines shake!! IF you change out the gaskets on a REGULAR basis, the problem goes away.BTW...I've got an uncle that is a retired operating engineer. He was operating heavy equipment before you were an itch in your daddy's pants. He's used Detroit powered equipment for years and NEVER complained, but he also take care of his equipment. Bud has a 1968 model D8 Cat that has NEVER had the bottom end rebuilt,even after the dozer sat in 10ft of water for a YEAR!! He farms, so he owns tractors. His newest tractor(a Massey Fergeson) is nearly 40 yrs old. It's NEVER had to have the bottom end rebuilt. See a pattern?

The type to start the motor at full throttle and shut it off the same way? LOL

[hurryinhoosier62]

YEP!! We once got an 8V71 out of a loader from a guy like that. ALL the main caps were EXTREMELY loose, 4 of 5 main saddles and ALL the cam bores were spun. We should have junked that POS, but the owner said he couldn't afford a new engine. The TOTAL repair bill was nearly $6,000. We refused to warranty the work because the block was TRASHED!! A week after he got the block back, he called to let us know the engine was back in service and running great!! According to big hammer, this couldn't have happened; it was an "inferior" V-block diesel!!

[yak]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

bigunde and Brad,

What we have in big hammer is the TYPICAL "throttle jockey". big hammer, you are correct: I am NOT a heavy equipment operator. I AM the engine machinist that had to
repair all the damage that "gorillas" like you did to perfectly good engines because you're either too ignorant or too lazy to give an engine a LITTLE respect!! Oh, I've seen guys like you. You try to move loads so large the hydraulic lines nearly burst just to save a little time. You'll jump into a cold piece of machinery and expect it to perform flawlessly WITHOUT a single minute of warm-up. When all the abuse you have given the equipment catches up with you, you "bad-mouth" the equipment!! Like Brad pointed out, ALL Detroits( except the series 40,60 and 80 engines) are TWO-STROKES. Whether it's a 3-53 or a 16V149, they ALL operate at WOT. He(Brad) is also correct on the oil leaking problems. Those engines shake!! IF you change out the gaskets on a REGULAR basis, the problem goes away.BTW...I've got an uncle that is a retired operating engineer. He was operating heavy equipment before you were an itch in your daddy's pants. He's used Detroit powered equipment for years and NEVER complained, but he also take care of his equipment. Bud has a 1968 model D8 Cat that has NEVER had the bottom end rebuilt,even after the dozer sat in 10ft of water for a YEAR!! He farms, so he owns tractors. His newest tractor(a Massey Fergeson) is nearly 40 yrs old. It's NEVER had to have the bottom end rebuilt. See a pattern?

i wonder if big hammer will even respond to this because this post is a bunch of speculation and stories with no proof or evidence of anything at all. dont you know that a cold engine makes the most power so as soon as you hit the key you gotta pin the throttle to keep the clearances tight?

[hurryinhoosier62]

Probably not!! It seem to be an OPINION based on heresay and conjecture rather than FACTS. Yak, I seen a few engines where that mindset was used. They usually had the rods hanging out of the block or the crank broken into pieces becuse they had "hydrauliced"!!

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by yak

i wonder if big hammer will even respond to this because this post is a bunch of speculation and stories with no proof or evidence of anything at all. dont you know that a cold engine makes the most power so as soon as you hit the key you gotta pin the throttle to keep the clearances tight?

Kinda like your statement all Ford engines suck

When the metal heats up it changes shape & expands, so hitting the throttle at startup won't change that - it will warm it up quicker is harder on the engine.

[yak]

Originally Posted by 455Grandville

Kinda like your statement all Ford engines suck

When the metal heats up it changes shape & expands, so hitting the throttle at startup won't change that - it will warm it up quicker is harder on the engine.

my comment about all ford motors is based on fact- none of them perform well out of the box from ford , they always need something done to them to make them perform. i used to be a ford guy but after having to work on their 1997 and up sh&t i dont even waste my time with fords anymore

[yak]

Originally Posted by yak

dont you know that a cold engine makes the most power so as soon as you hit the key you gotta pin the throttle to keep the clearances tight?

lol i hope nobody here actually believes what i wrote here

[bigunde]

Originally Posted by yak

my comment about all ford motors is based on fact- none of them perform well out of the box from ford , they always need something done to them to make them perform. i used to be a ford guy but after having to work on their 1997 and up sh&t i dont even waste my time with fords anymore

Whos facts are these? So you go to Dodge for "out of the box" performance???

[giddygoat]

Interesting comparison of Ford and Chevy 1 tons going at it. I talked with a service tech the other day that works at a Ford dealership. He said he checks all the new diesels when the come in to see what they are doing for mileage, the 3/4 and 1 tons are averaging 23 mpg, and this is in the winter. Any one have any mileage numbers on the GM and Dodge?
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...t=0&FORM=LKVR7