[keith k]

Originally Posted by 68gtoMN

Mr. Champ...I have come to expect the one-sided slant from you and I am not disappointed. Here you make a comparison between cars that are not alike. Instead of posting the base price for the Shelby GT500, you post a price for the upmarket edition (super snake). The current base price for a Shelby GT500 is, according to Ford's website (http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/models/) is $48,810, a good $7,000 less than the ZL1. It is already stated by Ford that the new model will have 650 HP as the base model. We can only imagine the other upgrades for the 2013 model, so we'll have to wait. For starters, here's an article detailing a few of the improvements we can expect to see, including bilstein electronically adjustable shocks, a track pack with oil/diff/trans coolers and brembo brakes. Perhaps this will bring the two prices on par with each other. From a capability standpoint, it would appear that Ford was laying in wait for this...
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/11/15/2...straight-from/

Here's the thing...when trying to make a point it is important to include context as a FACT without proper context is merely data. Your bias is clear, but that's ok - we expect it. Don't worry, I am here to counter your incomplete or misleading information.

Now that I have provided the appropriate information, you will have more time to post oil company pricing conspiracy posts...you're welcome

Beat me to it... thanks.

[68gtoMN]

Uh oh....Oops..

http://jalopnik.com/5891305/camaro-z...-quality-issue

[bigunde]

Originally Posted by 68gtoMN

Uh oh....Oops..

http://jalopnik.com/5891305/camaro-z...-quality-issue

Well that stinks but it happens. Didnt they have to redo the Mustang a few years back for something? No biggy to me, not a fan of the new Camaro

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by 68gtoMN

Uh oh....Oops..

http://jalopnik.com/5891305/camaro-z...-quality-issue

Better to stop it before there is a major problem. Good for GM for doing that.

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Actually 68gtoMN, I think that the Ford 5.0L NA Mustang did VERY WELL!

You have a Camaro with a supercharged & larger engine with 136 more horsepower available and you can only run 2.45 seconds faster vs the Mustang on a road course?

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Tom Vaught

and GM took fords best shot at a factory race car and turned it into a pretzel--- everywhere. the zl1 was not only faster in the straights, it cornered better as well.

Originally Posted by 68gtoMN

Mr. Champ...I have come to expect the one-sided slant from you and I am not disappointed. Here you make a comparison between cars that are not alike. Instead of posting the base price for the Shelby GT500, you post a price for the upmarket edition (super snake). The current base price for a Shelby GT500 is, according to Ford's website (http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/models/) is $48,810, a good $7,000 less than the ZL1. It is already stated by Ford that the new model will have 650 HP as the base model. We can only imagine the other upgrades for the 2013 model, so we'll have to wait. For starters, here's an article detailing a few of the improvements we can expect to see, including bilstein electronically adjustable shocks, a track pack with oil/diff/trans coolers and brembo brakes. Perhaps this will bring the two prices on par with each other. From a capability standpoint, it would appear that Ford was laying in wait for this...
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/11/15/2...straight-from/

Here's the thing...when trying to make a point it is important to include context as a FACT without proper context is merely data. Your bias is clear, but that's ok - we expect it. Don't worry, I am here to counter your incomplete or misleading information.

Now that I have provided the appropriate information, you will have more time to post oil company pricing conspiracy posts...you're welcome

that price for is for the current gt500, which the zl1 destroys in every way. the base price for the '13 is supposed to be much more.

the '13 gt 500 will be the first factory domestic 650 hp car though! to run 12's....

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by bigunde

Well that stinks but it happens. Didnt they have to redo the Mustang a few years back for something? No biggy to me, not a fan of the new Camaro

yeah they had to redo the mustang for 2011 because it was slow as ****!

[ambmech1]

Camaro/Mustang. Drove both of them last May. Have always been a GM guy. The fun quotient and the killer looks in my opinion went to the Mustang. Bought the 2012 V6 with a Performance Package option. Less than $25k and tons of fun. Stock 305 HP, 6spd standard Transmission, 331 Posi, GT suspension and brakes, 19" Pirelli high performance summer only rubber. Best of all, consistently getting 27 mpg with spirited driving. Near future plans will be the bolt on supercharger which will up the ponies to 480. All out of a 3.7 liter.

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by ambmech1

Camaro/Mustang. Drove both of them last May. Have always been a GM guy. The fun quotient and the killer looks in my opinion went to the Mustang. Bought the 2012 V6 with a Performance Package option. Less than $25k and tons of fun. Stock 305 HP, 6spd standard Transmission, 331 Posi, GT suspension and brakes, 19" Pirelli high performance summer only rubber. Best of all, consistently getting 27 mpg with spirited driving. Near future plans will be the bolt on supercharger which will up the ponies to 480. All out of a 3.7 liter.

High 13s in the base model; in 1969 a well tuned 428 Mustang might do that.

Regardless of make it's amazing how fast these new cars are even the slow ones -

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by Mr_GTO

Better to stop it before there is a major problem. Good for GM for doing that.

[68gtoMN]

Originally Posted by big hammer

and GM took fords best shot at a factory race car and turned it into a pretzel--- everywhere. the zl1 was not only faster in the straights, it cornered better as well.

that price for is for the current gt500, which the zl1 destroys in every way. the base price for the '13 is supposed to be much more.

the '13 gt 500 will be the first factory domestic 650 hp car though! to run 12's....

Well there, Big Idiot, I believe you will soon be eating your words. Unlike the ZL1 (fake) testing, the 2013 Shelby is said to run 11.7 or better @125+ using FACTORY tires (not drag radials to reach 11.9 which, according to Chevrolet, is "deep into the 11's"). LOLOLOLOL

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/05/21/2...iew/#continued

Base price is $54,200 vs. $54,995 for the ZL1. However, it can be priced up to $63,000 (including delivery fee) with all of the options checked. so in this case, the ZL1 offers some value as it comes with some of the Shelby's options as standard. Still not apples to apples, but worth mentioning. One other thing, the HP is now officially 662!

I can't wait to see them in the magazine comparisons. For now, however, I'll relish the fact that you are a blowhard - comment has little to do with your liking a Camaro)

[MikeNoun]

Amazing....I started this thread on January 25th, with the topic being the Chevy ZL1 eclipsing the Mustang.

Now, 5 months later, the tables have been turned.

I think most of these Shelbys (and ZL1's and ZR1's) will never see the street. They'll be trailered from the dealership to their new home, tucked under a car cover, never seeing the light of day, and that's a shame. Street racing, or just cruising, has been replaced with guys bragging about who has more horsepower. Yet the owners have nothing to do with making that horsepower, they just wrote a check.

Still not a fan of the all-black wheels. I think I'd go silver, maybe chrome. The black wheels just ruin the look (same on the ZR1 and ZL1). I think the wheels on ANY car are an integral part of the overall look, and when they're totally blacked out, they look like they don't have any wheels at all.

Interesting too that another write-up states that they turned some 12 second et's with ease. They also mentioned that the engine ran hot, so Ford eliminated the mesh in the grille for added cooling. I like functional features like that, where the designers have to take a back seat to the engineers, all for the sake of horsepower.

Kudos to Ford and their Shelby Mustang. I think it's an awesome car, and a great deal for the money. Definitely the pinnacle of Mustang performance.

I'm not a fan of Grabber Blue....looks a little too plastic for me, like it was molded in that color.

I'll take dark blue w/white stripes, or dark red w/white stripes.

[bigunde]

Originally Posted by 68gtoMN

Well there, Big Idiot, I believe you will soon be eating your words. Unlike the ZL1 (fake) testing, the 2013 Shelby is said to run 11.7 or better @125+ using FACTORY tires (not drag radials to reach 11.9 which, according to Chevrolet, is "deep into the 11's"). LOLOLOLOL

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/05/21/2...iew/#continued

Base price is $54,200 vs. $54,995 for the ZL1. However, it can be priced up to $63,000 (including delivery fee) with all of the options checked. so in this case, the ZL1 offers some value as it comes with some of the Shelby's options as standard. Still not apples to apples, but worth mentioning. One other thing, the HP is now officially 662!

I can't wait to see them in the magazine comparisons. For now, however, I'll relish the fact that you are a blowhard - comment has little to do with your liking a Camaro)

WOW whats up with all the anger and name calling these days yall? LOL
Im figuring several in here wouldnt do it face to face ( no CobraBill, I am NOT talking about you). LOL

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by bigunde

WOW whats up with all the anger and name calling these days yall? LOL
Im figuring several in here wouldnt do it face to face ( no CobraBill, I am NOT talking about you). LOL

Hell, it's a back and forth thing with the Mustang & Camaro, one year one wins, next year the loser ups last years winner.
Personally, I think Ford screwed up by dropping the GT, that car was much better looking then these lookalike cars you can't distinguish from one another in the parking lot

[68gtoMN]

Originally Posted by bigunde

WOW whats up with all the anger and name calling these days yall? LOL
Im figuring several in here wouldnt do it face to face ( no CobraBill, I am NOT talking about you). LOL

I'm feeding off of hammertime's posts. I'm not angry - I'm giving back what he's dishing out and adding a little spice. As for not doing it face-to-face, I'm pretty sure I would not be the one backing down as he looked up to me. Yep.

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by 68gtoMN

Well there, Big Idiot, I believe you will soon be eating your words. Unlike the ZL1 (fake) testing, the 2013 Shelby is said to run 11.7 or better @125+ using FACTORY tires (not drag radials to reach 11.9 which, according to Chevrolet, is "deep into the 11's"). LOLOLOLOL

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/05/21/2...iew/#continued

Base price is $54,200 vs. $54,995 for the ZL1. However, it can be priced up to $63,000 (including delivery fee) with all of the options checked. so in this case, the ZL1 offers some value as it comes with some of the Shelby's options as standard. Still not apples to apples, but worth mentioning. One other thing, the HP is now officially 662!

I can't wait to see them in the magazine comparisons. For now, however, I'll relish the fact that you are a blowhard - comment has little to do with your liking a Camaro)

edmunds ran a 12.2 @ 121 with the '13 gt500.

and to get a similarily equipped gt500 with track ready suspension is around 10 grand more than the zl1.

i do like that ford gives you the option of taking the track ready suspension or not. but given how out dated they are i am willing to bet that most people will opt for not.

[68gtoMN]

Originally Posted by big hammer

edmunds ran a 12.2 @ 121 with the '13 gt500.

and to get a similarily equipped gt500 with track ready suspension is around 10 grand more than the zl1.

i do like that ford gives you the option of taking the track ready suspension or not. but given how out dated they are i am willing to bet that most people will opt for not.

Edmonds has run the 2013 GT500 already? Hmmmm...interesting that this was the same time mentioned by the autoblog journalists in the link I posted - on their first time out. Unlike the chevy ZL1 video with factory drivers... LOL Regardless, for a 1st time run by journalists who are not hotshoes...that's impressive. Remember, you can't compare a chevy documentary, with chevy drivers and support, running on drag radials to a solitary journalist report with one run.

Secondly, while the GT500 can be kitted up all the way to more than $65K, the closest comparison to the ZL1 (performance equipment equivalent with track suspension, that is - you can check the gt500 configurator yourself) shows the Shelby running $58,490 (including destination) or, roughly, $3,500 more. That's 82 HP and 75 lb/ft more than the chevy for $3,500. Adding the track package ($2,995)brings external coolers and pumps for several systems that the Chevy does not offer; therefore, it's not germane to the discussion.

I believe the Camaro to be quite a potent package. I'm pleased to see chevy offer such a car. It is my opinion that the Mustang is a better looking car and, at this point, I am speculating that it will deliver vastly better straight-line results. We'll have to wait to see how well it drives on the track...

[bigunde]

Originally Posted by 68gtoMN

Edmonds has run the 2013 GT500 already? Hmmmm...interesting that this was the same time mentioned by the autoblog journalists in the link I posted - on their first time out. Unlike the chevy ZL1 video with factory drivers... LOL Regardless, for a 1st time run by journalists who are not hotshoes...that's impressive. Remember, you can't compare a chevy documentary, with chevy drivers and support, running on drag radials to a solitary journalist report with one run.

Secondly, while the GT500 can be kitted up all the way to more than $65K, the closest comparison to the ZL1 (performance equipment equivalent with track suspension, that is - you can check the gt500 configurator yourself) shows the Shelby running $58,490 (including destination) or, roughly, $3,500 more. That's 82 HP and 75 lb/ft more than the chevy for $3,500. Adding the track package ($2,995)brings external coolers and pumps for several systems that the Chevy does not offer; therefore, it's not germane to the discussion.





I believe the Camaro to be quite a potent package. I'm pleased to see chevy offer such a car. It is my opinion that the Mustang is a better looking car and, at this point, I am speculating that it will deliver vastly better straight-line results. We'll have to wait to see how well it drives on the track...

"The Germans got nuttin to do with it"-- Buford T Justice

Sorry, just had too.. As you were.!

[68gtoMN]

And I AM of German heritage - father born there.

[Cobrabill]

Dad'd father was born in Hamburg.Mother's father in Dublin.So i'm a drunk trying to take over the world.

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by 68gtoMN

Edmonds has run the 2013 GT500 already? Hmmmm...interesting that this was the same time mentioned by the autoblog journalists in the link I posted - on their first time out. Unlike the chevy ZL1 video with factory drivers... LOL Regardless, for a 1st time run by journalists who are not hotshoes...that's impressive. Remember, you can't compare a chevy documentary, with chevy drivers and support, running on drag radials to a solitary journalist report with one run.

Secondly, while the GT500 can be kitted up all the way to more than $65K, the closest comparison to the ZL1 (performance equipment equivalent with track suspension, that is - you can check the gt500 configurator yourself) shows the Shelby running $58,490 (including destination) or, roughly, $3,500 more. That's 82 HP and 75 lb/ft more than the chevy for $3,500. Adding the track package ($2,995)brings external coolers and pumps for several systems that the Chevy does not offer; therefore, it's not germane to the discussion.

I believe the Camaro to be quite a potent package. I'm pleased to see chevy offer such a car. It is my opinion that the Mustang is a better looking car and, at this point, I am speculating that it will deliver vastly better straight-line results. We'll have to wait to see how well it drives on the track...

there is a member on camaro5 who ran a well documented 12.02 with his zl1 bone stock on his second pass ever with the car. however i do believe there will always be at least a 5 mph trap speed difference between the two cars seeing as the gt500 has a major power and weight advantage. it's fords flagship car, they can throw whatever they want at it.

the ford is more expensive and quite likely handles like poo. ford does have poor suspension development. but in all honesty both likely handle plenty fine for any of us here.

i am a little disappointed in the 5th gens performance in ways. but when it was released it decimated both the mustang and challenger, both of which needed upgrading anyway. since the camaro is the newest, it will be the last to get revamped.

the new gt500 is sweet, and we're getting close to factory 700 hp cars! since the c7 vette will be getting released soon, it will be a strong indicator of what is coming down the pipe for the camaro. time will tell!

i ust hope they are going to dump the portly platform the 5th gen is built on and move to something lighter. 4000 pounds is retarded. but i guess alot of people disagree since it's selling so well.