[GTOnly70]

Originally Posted by MikeNoun

Still not a fan of the all-black wheels. I think I'd go silver, maybe chrome. The black wheels just ruin the look (same on the ZR1 and ZL1). I think the wheels on ANY car are an integral part of the overall look, and when they're totally blacked out, they look like they don't have any wheels at all.

IMO, there are only two cars that look good with black wheels - the '69 1/2 440+6 Super Bees and Roadrunners. On every other car, it's a detraction, including the Sheby Stangs (which I love). Especially hideous were those yellow '90's Trans Ams with the black wheels.

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by GTOnly70

IMO, there are only two cars that look good with black wheels - the '69 1/2 440+6 Super Bees and Roadrunners. On every other car, it's a detraction, including the Sheby Stangs (which I love). Especially hideous were those yellow '90's Trans Ams with the black wheels.

yeah those CE trans ams were butt-****in ugly.

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

Dad'd father was born in Hamburg.Mother's father in Dublin.So i'm a drunk trying to take over the world.

And you're a liberal -

[MikeNoun]

Originally Posted by GTOnly70

IMO, there are only two cars that look good with black wheels - the '69 1/2 440+6 Super Bees and Roadrunners. On every other car, it's a detraction, including the Sheby Stangs (which I love). Especially hideous were those yellow '90's Trans Ams with the black wheels.

The whole "black wheels" look has really exploded, and I'm not sure why. They were (and still are) popular on modified imports (a.k.a. "ricers").

The whole autocross thing, along with pro touring, seems to have brought black wheels to the forefront. I know in the 70's, some SCCA racers began using black wheels (not the rim, just the center) to dissipate heat from the brakes (every little bit helps).

On more modern production cars, it's supposed to give it a "junkyard dog" look (like the 69-1/2 Super Bee), but many of these cars today are too classy and elegant to have black wheels (in my opinion). Corvettes, Ferraris, they just don't look right. They look like someone stole the nice wheels, and the owner got some temporary rims.

But on modern cars, they sure hide brake dust, I just don't like the look. They need some sort of satin or chrome dish to the black center, like the 87 GNX wheel.

I think the first car I saw with all black wheels was the 96 Corvette Grand Sport. And like many people, my first question was, "What's with the wheels?".




And I agree, the 2002 Trans Am (yellow) does not appear to have been designed with ANY traditional Pontiac styling cues in mind, which was a shame considering it was the last year produced, and the final farewell to the Trans Am legacy.

[68gtoMN]

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/06/06/c...yno/#continued

Stirs the pot

[bigunde]

Originally Posted by 68gtoMN

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/06/06/c...yno/#continued

Stirs the pot

Just had to do it didnt you.


No matter what that is crazy "pump gas" horsepower!!! Wonder if "The New GM" will ever go to 4 valves as Ford did?

[68gtoMN]

Yes, factory offerings (technology) is amazing! Costly, but amazing nonetheless. both cars will be immensely capable. Pushing the envelope makes all others better also.

Ford recently released video of the Shelby GT500 making the rounds on the Nardo Test track in Italy - running wide open in excess of 200 MPH (factory) and performing full ABS stops from that speed without drama. The thought just scares the CRAP out of me...

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/06/05/w...ys-nardo-ring/

Cool stuff...

[keith k]

600 HP to the tires, and no gas guzzler tax. Not that buyers of these cars probably care, but that's quite a feat of engineering...

I remember just 10 years ago when the SVT Cobra came out with the supercharged 4.6 4V at 390 HP, thinking.... how much higher can it go? Apparently, a lot.

[Mr_GTO]

My friend got his ZL1 yesterday. He is going to drive it home in a few weeks to let me drive it. I'll give my review then.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by 68gtoMN

Yes, factory offerings (technology) is amazing! Costly, but amazing nonetheless. both cars will be immensely capable. Pushing the envelope makes all others better also.

Ford recently released video of the Shelby GT500 making the rounds on the Nardo Test track in Italy - running wide open in excess of 200 MPH (factory) and performing full ABS stops from that speed without drama. The thought just scares the CRAP out of me...

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/06/05/w...ys-nardo-ring/

Cool stuff...

When will Ford publish the GT500's time around the Nurburgring? They took the car there (as stated in your link above, but unlike Chevy - have not made the times public.

Evidently the car can go 200+ MPH in a straight line, but has trouble with going around a corner...

[Tom Vaught]

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/06/05/w...ing/#continued

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/06/06/c...yno/#continued

Basically a 100 real horsepower difference between the Mighty ZL-1 Camaro and the Shelby Mustang on the same day on the same RW Dyno, with the same operator. (Ford had the smaller engine too) Impressive

Tom Vaught

(ps not out of Bullets yet, camaro lovers)

reference post #70, the guy only knows how to play one record and it is a poor, scratched up one to boot.
No one gives a rats about some German course.

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/06/05/w...ing/#continued

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/06/06/c...yno/#continued

Basically a 100 real horsepower difference between the Mighty ZL-1 Camaro and the Shelby Mustang on the same day on the same RW Dyno, with the same operator. (Ford had the smaller engine too) Impressive

Tom Vaught

(ps not out of Bullets yet, camaro lovers)

reference post #70, the guy only knows how to play one record and it is a poor, scratched up one to boot.
No one gives a rats about some German course.

Is that why Ford won't release the time? They had no problem doing it for other cars they've built and tested there.

I applaud Ford for such high HP. makes for a nice war. Been hearing good things about the Cobra Jet motors as well.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Basically a 100 real horsepower difference between the Mighty ZL-1 Camaro and the Shelby Mustang on the same day on the same RW Dyno, with the same operator. (Ford had the smaller engine too) Impressive

Tom Vaught

(ps not out of Bullets yet, camaro lovers)

reference post #70, the guy only knows how to play one record and it is a poor, scratched up one to boot.
No one gives a rats about some German course.

Funny...

We already knew from the published factory numbers that the Mustang won the HP war.

Evidently Ford cares enough about some "German" course to take their car their.

By all accounts, Ford poured a substantial amount of development resources into the supercharged creation by running it through the ringer at some of the world's most hallowed courses. Those include the infamous Nürburgring and Italy's massive Nardo Ring.

They just won't publish the number - because the number was embarrassing to them, again...

Speaking of a poor scratched up record...

Doesn't matter how many bullets you have - if you can't hit the target...

[68gtoMN]

Originally Posted by The Champ

Funny...

We already knew from the published factory numbers that the Mustang won the HP war.

Evidently Ford cares enough about some "German" course to take their car their.



They just won't publish the number - because the number was embarrassing to them, again...

Speaking of a poor scratched up record...

Doesn't matter how many bullets you have - if you can't hit the target...

A) you continue to prove that you were properly cast in the role of the partisan, know-it-all, brand-blinded idiot (thank you for that); B) you continue to work hard to deflect from the points looking to find an alternate meaning hidden in something said or, more importantly, not said; C) your assumptions demonstrate world-class ignorance as you have NO knowledge to support your claims (if it's not being touted by Ford, then, it MUST mean that xxxx).

1. Cows manufacture manure
2. Manure is spread to help crops grow
3. Thank you for continuing to produce the fertilizer that keeps this thread alive

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by 68gtoMN

A) you continue to prove that you were properly cast in the role of the partisan, know-it-all, brand-blinded idiot (thank you for that); B) you continue to work hard to deflect from the points looking to find an alternate meaning hidden in something said or, more importantly, not said; C) your assumptions demonstrate world-class ignorance as you have NO knowledge to support your claims (if it's not being touted by Ford, then, it MUST mean that xxxx).

1. Cows manufacture manure
2. Manure is spread to help crops grow
3. Thank you for continuing to produce the fertilizer that keeps this thread alive

Boooing it doesn't make it less true.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by 68gtoMN

A) you continue to prove that you were properly cast in the role of the partisan, know-it-all, brand-blinded idiot (thank you for that); B) you continue to work hard to deflect from the points looking to find an alternate meaning hidden in something said or, more importantly, not said; C) your assumptions demonstrate world-class ignorance as you have NO knowledge to support your claims (if it's not being touted by Ford, then, it MUST mean that xxxx).

1. Cows manufacture manure
2. Manure is spread to help crops grow
3. Thank you for continuing to produce the fertilizer that keeps this thread alive

I took the info you linked and asked an honest question - when will Ford publish the times?

You're avoidance and obfuscation (just like Tom) of the question only makes you look worse.

If you care to read, there is plenty of information out there to support the very limited handling (in comparison to the Camaro) capability of the Mustang.

Although the Boss 302 is probably the best Mustang ever built, it just feels and performs like it's a generation behind. Randy summed it up: "The Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca was my favorite American musclecar -- until today." It isn't the lack of power; it isn't the lack of amenities. It's simply a lack of technology.

The Camaro is the benchmark for a new class of vehicle. Call it the Power Pony, the Warhorse -- the name isn't important. What is important is ZL1's on-demand attitude. Supercar levels of performance, with the daily driving comfort of a GT, wrapped in a nostalgic package.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz1xDDND54u

You compare me to a cow. Fine - does that make you feel like a big man?

I'll compare you to a pig. Not only do you manufacture pig manure, you like to roll around in it.

Touche'

[keith k]

Ford may not publish Ring times, but even if the company did, it wouldn't mean that much. Too many variables can be arranged in a manufacturer's favor when they're looking to publish times.

I'm quite certain that at least one of the competent and capable car magazines (of which there are unfortunately few) will put these cars against each other on a proper track. If not the Ring, than something which would produce a similar outcome. You know C&D will likely run them against each other at VIR, for example.

Then you will have your answer....

[Tom Vaught]

Once we get past the BS from the Expert on the infamous Nürburgring course, (Why is it infamous, by the way?), I have another comment about the Camaro offerings:

1) In the newest Hot Rod Magazine, the writers give some info on the new COPO Camaro. (Forget about the previous stuff, this car will be the Baddest Camaro ever offered, if not the baddest Chebby Product of all time).

Gm is stepping up to compete against the Cobra Jet and Drag Pack cars:

a) You will be able to get two versions of the 327 CID Blower Engine as well as a 427 NA engine. 427 HP for the 427 NA and 500 for the lower powered 327 and 550 for the Highest Powered 327 Engine. Like Hot Rod says that is about as bogus a rating as you can get. The bigger version of the 327 Engine gets a 4.0L Whipple Supercharger, DOH! Our 331 CID Ford Cobra Jet engine with the 4.0L Whipple Supercharger has run low 8 second times in the quarter. Don't tell me that a Chebby engine with 4 less cubic inches and the same boosting device will not make similar power. 550 HP Right. (:>)

b) The car will be built with a "Strange" 9" Rear Axle (Looks an "Ford Design" 9" axle will finally will go into a GM vehicle in production).

c) They will use the same Aeromotive (known fuel system parts) as the Cobra Jet Cars.

d) Base COPO will be from $89K to $97K, but what is cool from GM is the "Collectors Package" (if you have the cash): the ability to put 3 different engine conbos in the same car (with all three engines having the same engine number)!

The article says that one of the Ford Cobra Jets Larry Fezell's car) with the little Eaton TVS 2300 Supercharger ran a 8.95 at 153 mph at the same track during the COPO testing. THE LITTLE BLOWER.

The Whipple 4.0L COPO cars will be the baddest muthas of all time.

Tom Vaught

ps 2300 = 2300 cc (140 cubic inches per revolution of the supercharger)

4.0L = 4000 cc (or about 244 cubic inches per revolution of the supercharger)

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Once we get past the BS from the Expert on the infamous Nürburgring course...

No BS being spread about the Nurburgring, except the false claim that no one cares.

Your employer cares - that's why they take their cars there.

Carry on.

[Tom Vaught]

The BS is your insistence that it is the only track in the world that matters.

Carry on

Tom Vaught