[formulabird428]

Has anyone had any experience with registering a car as "Specially Constructed Vehicle" in California?

I'm moving to CA soon from OH. I have a 79' Firebird and it's been completely redone. 600 horsepower, all new drive train (beginning with an aluminum-headed 1969 428 block + 0.060). I'm curious if people have opinions on my chances for getting it cleared for no emissions checks. The car still looks like a 1979, maybe except for a cowl-induction hood. The CA law states that the car may be classified from the year of engine (1969) if it resembles stock. Mine does not (holley carb/victor intake/alum heads/internals). Then it says, the year will be assigned as 1960, if no other determination can be made. However, as mentioned, it still looks like a '79 firebird for the most part.

[INJUNTOM]

Originally Posted by formulabird428

Has anyone had any experience with registering a car as "Specially Constructed Vehicle" in California?

I'm moving to CA soon from OH. I have a 79' Firebird and it's been completely redone. 600 horsepower, all new drive train (beginning with an aluminum-headed 1969 428 block + 0.060). I'm curious if people have opinions on my chances for getting it cleared for no emissions checks. The car still looks like a 1979, maybe except for a cowl-induction hood. The CA law states that the car may be classified from the year of engine (1969) if it resembles stock. Mine does not (holley carb/victor intake/alum heads/internals). Then it says, the year will be assigned as 1960, if no other determination can be made. However, as mentioned, it still looks like a '79 firebird for the most part.

You're Fuct. Welcome to Commiefornia.

If the engine is of the original configuration or something that was available that year on that make and model, then it has to have everything it came with stock unless it is a 50 state legal part.

If it's a "swap", (aka non original configuration that was available that year on that make and model), then it will have to go to the refereee for a BAR label...and has to be an engine the same year or newer than the vehicle, and the vehicle as to have all the equipment that THAT engine had originally.

That is why the late 2nd gen F bodies aren't worth much here, and why nobody builds them here....well that and the fact that we can still get the older cars which are more desirable anyways.

[Ben M.]

Sorry, you're going to have to register it as a '79 provided it still has the factory VIN. Just because you changed the engine and transmission and put a cowl hood on it doesn't mean you get a pass for emissions testing or get to register it as specially constructed. The law regarding engine swaps is you can ONLY go newer than the chassis itself, not older (so a 1969 block in a 1979 chassis is technically not allowed).

Specially constructed vehicles refers to various chopped and severely modified bodies that may or may not have been cars at one time.

[INJUNTOM]

My suggestion would be to find a '75 or older chassis to put everything into since '75 and older is smog exempt here...for now.

I won't suggest switching numbers off that '75 chassis onto your car though. Simply because it's not politically correct to mention things like that

[gregneun]

All of this has been said, but here is how I understand the "rules" here in SoCal.

1. You can't swap an older engine into a new model year car. If it is smog exempt, no one cares.

2. Maybe if you put a Cat on and it passes smog you can get by. They do not look for engine VIN's at the smog shops, just vehicle VIN's. It also needs the evap cannister, they get a cap check and filler hole check.

I have a 1975, 455 engine in the 67 LeMans.

Might want to start looking for a 1979 Pontiac engine, to put in for the smog test. It's every two years.

Greg

[INJUNTOM]

Originally Posted by gregneun

1. You can't swap an older engine into a new model year car. If it is smog exempt, no one cares.

Correct

Originally Posted by gregneun

2. Maybe if you put a Cat on and it passes smog you can get by. They do not look for engine VIN's at the smog shops, just vehicle VIN's. It also needs the evap cannister, they get a cap check and filler hole check.

Incorrect - There are 3 parts to the test: Visual, funtional, and emissions (with the car ont he dyno under load)

1) It will never pass visual
2) It will never pass functional since most of the items being functionally tested won't be on the car
3) It will never pass emissions without all the above on the car

Originally Posted by gregneun

I have a 1975, 455 engine in the 67 LeMans.

Nobody looking over your shoulder on that one, but officially it's still supposed to have everything it came with - '75 and older are exempt from testing, but still not allowed to remove anything....but everybody does

Originally Posted by gregneun

Might want to start looking for a 1979 Pontiac engine, to put in for the smog test. It's every two years.

Greg

Not practial, because you would have to swap everything in and out to make it work...and as we all know here in smogland, 2 years comes up fast with this biennial system we have

[INJUNTOM]

BTW, I've had a smog license since 1993, so I know a couple things about this.

And let's not forget that they do roadside checkpoints looking for this stuff with a hefty fine to the owner of the vehicle and possibly the last person to have smogged it if caught.

...and the police will have you pop your hood if they suspect something isn't right. A friend of a friend recently almost lost a Pontiac Solstice over having an LS engine in it illegally. The cop knew it shouldn't sound like that and actually knew that it was an LS engine. He happened to be a hot rodder himself, and was ready to seize the car. Seems to me that he talked them out of towing it, but the judge gave him a ridiculously short time frame to get it straightened out. Not nearly enough time to do it from what I remember.

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by INJUNTOM

BTW, I've had a smog license since 1993, so I know a couple things about this.

And let's not forget that they do roadside checkpoints looking for this stuff with a hefty fine to the owner of the vehicle and possibly the last person to have smogged it if caught.

I also know a few guys who are gold shield certified on smog among other things and everything you are saying is 100% correct. Doesn't mean people don't deliberately try and skirt the rules or that there isn't the occasional tech out there who will take a few c-notes to pass a grossly failing car, but it definitely isn't the norm and you should not rely on it. No legitimate shop is going to risk their expensive license, the hefty fines and dyno equipment they had to buy just to help some dude off the street. And if you're driving like an idiot or get a cop having a bad day and he pulls you over and makes you pop your hood, it's a world of hurt and fines if they catch you cheating.

You can theoretically put almost any Pontiac v8 in any car that came with one you want that is smogged here, they won't check for VIN numbers or block stamp codes (and even if they did 99% won't know how to read them anyways). But that emissions sticker on the core support must match everything in the engine 100% or you fail visual. Make it pass visual (easy), make it pass the pressurizer, and make it pass the dyno sniffer. There is a lot of leeway for a Pontiac 400 and 455 and I made my 400 pass with like 1/3 the max allowed NOx, 0.0 HC emissions, and almost no CO2 emissions as well. Very doable, but once you start yanking off things like EGR valves or having a carb\intake with no CARB number on them, you won't pass easily if at all even if you can make it past visual.

[russosborne]

Sounds like a good reason to stay in Ohio.
From a fellow Ohioan. :-)
Russ

[INJUNTOM]

Originally Posted by Ben M.

Make it pass visual (easy)

Not so easy when EVRYTHING is gone. It will have to have an EGR intake, single exhaust with a cat converter, miles of vacuum lines, etc.

Not worth the effort every 2 years

Originally Posted by Ben M.

Doesn't mean people don't deliberately try and skirt the rules or that there isn't the occasional tech out there who will take a few c-notes to pass a grossly failing car, but it definitely isn't the norm and you should not rely on it.

Illegal smogs are harder and harder to get nowadays due to most guys doing it getting busted. And quite frankly, anyone doing illegal smogs in this day and age are utterly idiots. You eventually get caught. What a lot of guys don't think of is that we see 5 gases coming out of the tailpipe, the BAR sees a WHOLE lot more. I've had a BAR rep that I know show me some of the things they see, which is a whole lot more that what we get to see. Exhaust gas temperature and moisture content are a couple that I remember off hand. A car like the one in question would require a "clean piping" which means using another car for the test with the car in question's VIN number entered into the machine. They have computer programs that look for these things, and guess what? There's going to be another car out there that will have all the same readings (the one used for the clean piping), which quite frankly adds up to auto DNA.

And then there's the brainiacs who do "clean plugging" on '96 and newer OBD2 cars that has the smog machine plugging into the vehicle's onboard computer system through the DLC under the dash - guess what? You can get a vehicle's VIN number on your scanner screen by plugging into the car. The state SAYS that they can't get VIN data that way yet, but do you really think they are going to notify us when they do? Do you really believe them when they say they can't yet?

ANd then there's the whole camera issue - there's a camera port on the smog machine because they plan to someday film the techs doing the smogs, but they say they can't do that yet. Do we believe them?

Considering that you have to have a minimum of 2 years in the automotive field, be a top notch diagnostic and driveability tech, be certified in several areas of ASE testing, and somewhere around 150 hours of training in a BAR certified training course just to be eligible to take a test that has less than 50% passing rate in order to get the license, does it make sense to risk it all for a couple hundred bucks?

There are guys doing it, and the guy that I know works almost exclusively undercover going around and watching techs from down the street, on his laptop, etc.

I know a guy that got busted because the BAR parked a motorhome with a camera in it at the parking lot of the shopping center where his smog shop was and filmed him for daysn end.

AND... Hard to believe I'm sure {sarcasm} - they can watch your screen and everything you input into your machine from their laptop while sitting across the street from you while you have an entirely different vehicle sitting on your dyno.

No it's not fantasy stuff. It's what we know to be fact, but what about the stuff they don't tell us about? It is the government after all...

And the last thing any of us want is the surgeon general breathing down our necks...yes, the surgeon general. Smog issues are considered a health hazard here in commiefornia.

[Ken K]

You have it ruff. No smog and $30.00 for 2 years registration is the way to go. If it runs you can drive it.

[INJUNTOM]

Originally Posted by Ken K

You have it ruff. No smog and $30.00 for 2 years registration is the way to go. If it runs you can drive it.

Yeah, but you have to own stock in a sunscreen company to live there...

[Ken K]

Sunscreen what's that?

[Ken K]

And we don't get stuck with the crappy paint.

[Ken K]

You know it's getting bad when even the Chinese engines they sell at HF have special smog equipment that the engines in other states don't have.

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by INJUNTOM

Not so easy when EVRYTHING is gone.

Oh I never said it was easy from where he's starting, just that passing visual is easy if you read the diagram and make everything match. They won't take the air cleaner off or verify individual vacuum lines, but it has to be really close. But yeah, starting with what he has is going to require tracking down quite a few parts...

[PMD1969]

Ohio: 1979 T/A FOR SALE

Its in great shape and has 600 hp! Best offer since I am moving to Kommiefornika and looked at the big salary instead of the fact that I'll have to sell my car. All sympathetic offers considered.

Gym Shorts 1-555-867-5309





















j/k

[gregneun]

You need one, just register it there.

[Ken K]

You need a AZ drivers license. The title is only $4.00 and the insurance is less money. No loop holes, other people have thought of it. Some people try and sell cars from CA in AZ that don't pass smog.

[INJUNTOM]

Originally Posted by Ben M.

They won't take the air cleaner off or verify individual vacuum lines, but it has to be really close.

The smart ones will because that is exactly what you are supposed to do. That's one of the bad things about doing smogs in this screwed up cut throat business. You are meant to thoroughly inspect the car and the cut throat rates that these hungry guys out there advertise doesn't give you the time to thoroughly inspect the car.

You are signing an invoice that states that each component and system is intact, correct, and functions correctly. Unless that car looks as if it's never been messed with, I'm going to verify every vacuum hose.

The smog guy is up against undercover cars going through the shop, so unless you know the car, you'd better look it over well.

The worst thing is when one of these late 70s/early 80s vacuum hose nightmare vehicles come in and will obviously fail, you really have to look it over well to document which systems fail. You cant just rubber stamp it with a big F. You have to enter pass, defective, missing, modified, etc in every category like evap, egr, pcv, ais, cat, spark controls, tac, etc.