[njsteve]

Took her out for another spin today. I have been noticing some oil under the car after my recent test drives. Couldn't tell if it was gear lube leaking on the clutch or engine oil. I pulled the bellhousing inspection cover (very oily inside) and soaked the inside of the bellhousing with brake clean, while the wife pressed the clutch pedal. Oil had soaked into the clutch disc and it was chattering badly yesterday. I also drained and refilled the M22. I thought maybe it was overfilled and was pushing fluid out the front bearing retainer after I topped it off a few months ago. It was a bit overfilled.

So, after cleaning everything, I took her for another ride. The clutch worked much better. I got back home and climbed under again. Doesn't appear to be from the trans as the front bearing retainer was still relatively dry. It looks like it is engine oil. It seems to be dripping and then getting flung off the flywheel inside the bellhousing and dripping onto the clutch. So it looks to be the rear main, (very common with the modern non asbestos rope seals), rear rubber oil pan seal, or a leaking galley plug.

So after the MCACN show this fall, I will be pullng the engine to regasket everythng.

[The Boss]

It wouldn't be a Pontiac Steve if it didn't leak a little from the rear main.

[1qikta]

Originally Posted by The Boss

It wouldn't be a Pontiac Steve if it didn't leak a little from the rear main.

x2

[Formulabruce]

I know there will be some obvious opinions on this, but having done my share, Ill just say what I know works very very well. In fact I co wrote and did the research on a bulletin for the AERA ( American Engine rebuilders Association) on this. The Solution I received from member Pontiac Gregg , a bunch of years ago, actually really works well. The "Indian adventures" rear main and one exactly like it are fairly "thin" and in 400 applications, on older blocks fit in the big valley of the rope sortta well. On the 455 its a bit different story ( especially the 75-76 blocks)
What he does, and I did , and have done, and now my 1970 4 bolt has it, is get a Caddilac 500 cu in Rear main seal. ( same size crank) Its bit wider base , and lip is a bit more firm all the way around the crank. Its not a seal made for a smaller crank( 400/350) that was enlarged for that engine as the other Pontiac ones are.
Take the crank up after cleaning the rope galley with alcohol, or wax and grease remover, lacquer thinner, and dry it, put a bunch of black RTv in the rope Valley. then install half the seal. sit crank in it carefully, ( old bearing in place)then lift up and wipe excess. Do same for cap, ensuring its filled at bottom with sealer. Put on cap,( bearing in place and tighten, then remove, lift crank some and support, and let both parts dry apart over night. Use a razor to clean mating surfaces next day and install with a tiny drop of oil on each lip. The caddy seal is better suited for the "big valley" and the RTV makes sure nothing sneaks around it. Have done a 70-72 and 73 455 now this way and there are dry oil pans/flex plates etc!

[njsteve]

Originally Posted by The Boss

It wouldn't be a Pontiac Steve if it didn't leak a little from the rear main.

I though that maybe Canadian cars would leak something different? :-)

[FunctionalShaker]

Maple syrup.

[njsteve]

Originally Posted by FunctionalShaker

Maple syrup.

Ya know, that is exactly what it looks like!
The taste was kind of off though. Must be out of season. ;-)

[cdoggy81]

Good tip Bruce!

[Lloyd-TX]

First results posted from our Houston Public Library HMN search on Saturday . . .

Mucho thanks to gto4door, tabob, tabob's son David and my daughter Caroline for their assistance!

Hey Steve, is that price still good? If so, count me in . . .

[njsteve]

HOLY #&$%!

That is friggin amazing. What year was that ad? Can you PM me an unedited copy for my archives? I can see if the phone # matches any of my old paperwork.

[njsteve]

So did they just stumble across that while looking at old HMNs or were there getting their time machine ready to go shopping?

[Lloyd-TX]

Originally Posted by njsteve

HOLY #&$%!

That is friggin amazing. What year was that ad? Can you PM me an unedited copy for my archives? I can see if the phone # matches any of my old paperwork.

On it's way by e-mail, Steve. That ad was in the June, 1986 issue of Hemmings Motor News.

By the way, be sure and thank John (gto4door) or Bob (tabob) as one of them from our Houston Public Library posse found that ad.

[Lloyd-TX]

Originally Posted by njsteve

So did they just stumble across that while looking at old HMNs or were there getting their time machine ready to go shopping?

We were researching the 1970 Ram Air IV GTO in my "Stirrin' the pot" thread . . .

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=706485

[RicksGTO]

thats pretty wild to come across that old ad, great find Lloyd, John and Bob!
Not long after buying my Formula in '06, I ran across a PY member, Poncho-Mike that remembered test driving my Formula in about 1986 when it was for sale in LA.

[Formulabruce]

I previously owned a 72 a member just bought. I was considering buying it back myself!
Its a small world in the Pontiac business!

[njsteve]

I just got back from installing the new front coil springs and some assorted other parts. The hardest part was installing the new repro upper control arm rubber bumpers. We had to trim the damn things three times to get them to pull through the slots in the control arm. Doesnt anyone make a correct part any more?

I got the new front coils from Coil Spring Specialties. http://www.coilsprings.com/ They have all the original specs for the cars. I actually had them make my set for a one inch drop in ride height. They do this by altering the wire diameter used in the spring and not by just lopping off a coil. I am glad I got the one inch drop becuase after installation, the front end only dropped about 3/8". We will see how much more the car settles after I put some miles on it.

Here is the generic Classic Industries replacement next to the new coil spring. Slight difference of about an inch and a half uninstalled height. Anyone need the old pair of springs? The car sat at 28-1/2" at the front fender with the old springs on 235/60x15 tires.



And during the process:

[njsteve]

I took some underside photos while I had the car on the lift. You can see that we had the inspection cover off the bellhousing chasing that oil leak which looks more like a leaky oil galley or camshaft freeze plug since the oil seems to be coming from above the rear main seal. We put some leak detector dye in the oil a couple days ago and used the black light to find it. All it did was put a nice mist of dyed oil on the underside as part of the original Canadian self-rust proofing option.

[The Boss]

That's a very cool series of shots!

Nice details.

[njsteve]

I laid down on the creeper and scooted across the floor holding the camera on my chest and pressing the button. It took several passes to get everything sort of in frame. :-)

I'll drive her around a bit this weekend and then post the final stance results and measurements but it looks like this is the ticket for the correct ride height to avoid the Four Wheel Drive look that so many Firebirds get after spring replacement - the Stengel Brothers HO-335 rear sprinngs (de-arched one inch by Stengel) and the Coil Spring Specialties front coils for a 72 T/A with A/C (ordered with a custom one-inch ride height drop).

Here's the links:

http://www.stengelbros.com/PontiacLeafSprings.htm

http://www.coilsprings.com/classic.aspx

[RicksGTO]

great post Steve, much needed info on the springs as so many people have searched for a dependable replacement spring that won't end up too high. Looking forward to seeing the after ride height pics and measurements.