[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by moparcolt

I'll have to ask him if there was any additional charge for the substituted engine, I can't remember what he told me about that. He was going to order a Ram Air 68 GTO but changed his mind and opted for the lighter Firebird. He has a quote for the GTO as well.

He would love to find his old car if it is still out there somewhere.

Cool Deal !
Thanks for sharing the info and the pics on that car.

It sounds like it "might" could be car #7 on our current list.
Unrestored #'s Nightshade Green

With the shipping cost now known - and the total invoice amount with option content - we can boil it down as to whether it was Ram1 or Ram2 by the math.
By the dates - should be a Ram2.

Maybe Brian S. can get to it before i do.
or i might do it later tonight ...

Thanks again, MoparColt

[moparcolt]

If it is the car can you or anyone put me in touch with the owner? My friend Bob would love to see the car, and I am sure the owner would want to have coppies if not the originals of the docs

Chris

[email protected]

[68bird400HO]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

It sounds like it "might" could be car #7 on our current list.
Unrestored #'s Nightshade Green

Car #7 is Mr. Wempe (Mark) since I know he also owns the triple black RAII vert.

Cammer, I am not sure which interior his car has but I do think it is black.

[moparcolt]

Is mr. wempe on here? Where iss he from?

Anyone know more specifics on the machine?
The list with owners initials says GD next to that car? Anyone know for sure?

[mountaindomain1]

Hi.guys. I own the Nightshade Green RA II Coupe on the list of RA II Firebirds - My coupe was built Aug 6, 1968. Last one made. Black Custom interior in answer to some questions. The documentation is for another Nightshade Green RA II. Thanks.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Welcome aboard the PY Forum Mountain.
Thanks for joining up and bringing us some info on your Deuce Coupe.
Very much appreciated.

If you can ever feed us any more history, data or some pics of your cars - there is an eager audience here towards these 68's. And very few examples known.

All the cars on the list have their own special rights, but your Black Convertible has to be the pinnacle of the field.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by moparcolt

I'll have to ask him if there was any additional charge for the substituted engine, I can't remember what he told me about that.

i was going to do the breakdown on math last night.
But right out of the gate i noticed it has the Ram1 pricing for the RamAir option.
So it was no use to proceed just yet.

Ram2 was $ 747.77

That is not a conclusive factor.
The order draft date (May 28) was after the May 15 cut-off.
Delivery date of July 5 gives a pretty good spread of time too.
The car was built not far from where it was ordered.

Although the salesman or sales manager may both have had an oversight on the new bulletin - it would have been caught by the Zone Office. That could have created delay and both the dealer and buyer would have been contacted.

What happened from there is up to chance.
But $135+/- back then was significant coin and wouldn't get swept under the table.

Jim Mino had an example of another early Ram2 car with this same type scenario.
This car probably follows that pattern.

Another factoid that works in that favor - is the later Ram1 cars all had a $15 increase for the #347 option - and this one does not.
We can't explain that with further detailed facts , its just what we have discovered.

Perhaps Jim might have some more detailed info or insight about that car he mentioned to us. Believe he said the Billing History Card had hand written notations.
Or just refresh our memories in general.

i wish folks could have shared a few more digits of their VIN's in the past and we could probably determine more things with baseline VIN data. Most all concealed every digit beyond plant code in VIN. If we had say all but the last 3 digits of every car - we would have much more to work with.

One saving grace is you guys have the full VIN.
PHS price has increased a little more , and i wouldn't know if the previous owner would care to spend for that since he no longer owns it. Other than finding the car intact with matching drivetrain , the PHS having the additional notations would be the only other proof positive. Unless he has additional documents concerning the cost of the car.

If the engine / tranny codes had been filled in on the warranty pamphlet that would have been in favor too, but they usually were not filled in hardly ever.

It does appear to have been another one of those like Jim mentioned that slipped in a crack due to the change over.
But most folks want full coverage proof these days.

Does he have a protect-o-plate for the car ?
Some of those displayed the installed engine code.

[moparcolt]

He doesn't have the protect o plate, But I do know for certain it was a RA II car, not a RAI. After he ordered it he was informed that the RAI engine was no longer available, and the car would come with the RA II but would be more money, he said between $100 and $200 but he cant remember exactly. sold the car in 1971 to his neighbor. who traded it to Niebis Chevrolet in Chardon, OH 1974 on a vega.

He said he got back from Vietnam on May 22 and ordered the car May23

The other thing he mentioned was that the exhaust manifolds were almost like full length cast Iron headers, when he raced it he just unbolted the exhaust right from the manifolds.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

MoparColt , see if he has anything that has been embossed like this example - note the upper right hand corner . That is where the protect-o-plate was embossed.

They were similar to looking like a credit card or oversized dog tag.

They embossed them on documents like the way that they used to do credit cards at the stores - before electronic card readers.

If he has the P-o-P or anything that was embossed with it - that would be great news.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Not in disagreement or contrast , but the Ram1 had the long branch manifolds too.

Somewhere in , on , or inside that warranty pamphlet "should" have had the P-o-P embossed into it.
We can only hope.

[moparcolt]

No I just called him and asked him but no embossed anything only what I have showed you so far. I will have a look at it next time I'm over there though!

He has more pictures and video footage but none of the engine that I have seen, just interior and exterior shots, and some race footage on 8mm

wish I could get more info for ya but thats all we got in print.

he said he had to go down to the dealership and give the dealer more money for the other engine, and he got a receipt for it but no longer has that.

He also said his neighbor may have spun a bearing in the motor and that's why he traded it in on the vega.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

It all sounds fully legit to me.
And the dates line up for Ram2 with no problem.

If you do get back with him sometime, maybe you can have another look at that warranty pamphlet just for sake of it. Where the one i posted shows YS and PX those are the engine and tranny codes.

Anything he can share in way of pictures or video is dynamite !

Give him thanks from all of us for his service in Vietnam.
Thankful he came back alive

[moparcolt]

If you look on the receipt/ Order form, there is a second check number at the bottom followed by $200 which is kind of hard to read. He is pretty sure that was for the engine upgrade

[Bob Waa]

Guys! I'm the one that ordered the firebird that Moparcolt is talking about. I just talked to the person I sold it to. He traded it in at Earl Evans Chevrolet in Painesville Ohio in 1972 (for a Chevy Vega).

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by Bob Waa

Guys! I'm the one that ordered the firebird that Moparcolt is talking about. I just talked to the person I sold it to. He traded it in at Earl Evans Chevrolet in Painesville Ohio in 1972 (for a Chevy Vega).

I think I'm going to be sick!

[moparcolt]

thanks for chiming in BOB! If you guys have questions he's the guy to ask

[Bob Waa]

Guys, I think I will spend the money and go to PHS and get details of the car if possible.I see that my window sticker has the Ram Air package with a price of $616.16.
All I remember is the salesman calling me and saying the ram air package will cost me more, due to the engine change. I remember giving him a additional amount of money, but can't remember exactly how much!.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Welcome to the PY Forum Bob.

The thing about getting the Billing History Card from PHS - is it might not list anything specific. Might be good to wait until Jim Mino can chime in about the one he knew about.

Could also try contacting PHS via phone and ask specifically for Jim Mattison.
And explain the brief facts - before spending.
He has a soft spot for Ram2 cars also.

The dates,
the fact it doesn't have an extra $15 charge on Ram1 package,
the fact you had a discussion with dealer about order conflict,
additional money involved,
All point in the right direction.

If you had the car - it would be worth the expenditure regardless.
Not having the car - and if BHC came back inconclusive - $50-70 thrown to the wind.

It looks like your car may have come with console - hard to be sure because its in the fold/tear - and the low resolution. Did it have console on window sticker ?

[moparcolt]

Bob, which wheels did it come with when you picked it up new?

[muscle_collector]

Originally Posted by Bob Waa

Guys, I think I will spend the money and go to PHS and get details of the car if possible.I see that my window sticker has the Ram Air package with a price of $616.16.
All I remember is the salesman calling me and saying the ram air package will cost me more, due to the engine change. I remember giving him a additional amount of money, but can't remember exactly how much!.

cool pic, were the wheels the body color or were they black?