[428RA4]

Looks like a long road of love. Nice work.

I know all to well - as well - even a stock build is full of rabbit holes when you do obscura engine creation.

[jdw_poncho]

Originally Posted by RAIV-Z

The SCE copper head haskets are .080, stainless wire diameter is .041. I'll get the actual protrusion measurements when I drop of the valve springs.

Notes from SCE:
If you go with double o-rings they should not be stacked unless you use a thicker head gasket. Since copper (like a liquid) does not compress, rather it is displaced, the gasket does not like more than 25% of the cross section impinging at any one spot. Over 25% of cross section you risk cutting the gasket. I suggest off-setting the o-rings so as to deform the head gasket into an ”S” shape between the rings. Off-setting in this fashion will most likely require that the o-rings in either the head or block are in a ‘figure 8’ pattern but you will have to do the layout on the actual deck surfaces to be sure.

Glad to see its moving forward.

I think my double orings are offset .012" but I didnt do the figure 8 method. Did you buy a custom diameter gasket or the 4.380 standard they sell? The first set I bought pushed the inner diamter of the gasket really close to the bore. I would say it was less than .015". The final 3 sets I bought ended up being the 4.380 bore which I liked much better.

Keep us posted, we wanna see it run as much as you do.

[RAIV-Z]

Originally Posted by 428RA4

Looks like a long road of love. Nice work.

I know all to well - as well - even a stock build is full of rabbit holes when you do obscura engine creation.

Thanks!

It’s either love for Pontiacs or some sort of mental disorder. A few rabbit holes are understandable, the holes I ran into were more like the holes from the movie Tremors.

DCI announcing their RA-V heads allows me to move forward knowing that if I have integrity issues with my McCarty RA-V heads I now have a second source. I’ll be following your project closely.

[RAIV-Z]

Originally Posted by jdw_poncho

Glad to see its moving forward.

I think my double orings are offset .012" but I didnt do the figure 8 method. Did you buy a custom diameter gasket or the 4.380 standard they sell? The first set I bought pushed the inner diamter of the gasket really close to the bore. I would say it was less than .015". The final 3 sets I bought ended up being the 4.380 bore which I liked much better.

Keep us posted, we wanna see it run as much as you do.

I was looking at the 4.380 standard gasket, what diameter were the custom gaskets you got?

[mgarblik]

Just a thought for you as far as head gaskets go. Flattout gaskets has made all kinds of crazy copper gaskets for us over the years, no water holes, special placement water holes, special size water holes, offset bore spacing, 9/16" stud holes, the list is almost endless. They can produce in at least 10 different thicknesses, 2 different hardness values, coated or non-coated, and you are dealing with an owner who knows and likes Pontiacs. They can produce any bore size in .005 increments so you won't have to compromise. That's why we use them. Total crazy special gaskets in 10 days the longest wait. If you haven't committed, call them and ask for Mark Adelizzi. He is the president. Tell them you have a very special Pontiac application and they will take good care of you.

[jdw_poncho]

Originally Posted by RAIV-Z

I was looking at the 4.380 standard gasket, what diameter were the custom gaskets you got?

4.370

I had a couple issues with SCE running out of stock for the last set of gaskets. It took 5 weeks to receive them. Make sure you have a extra set or buy from flatout, thats who Im using now.

[428RA4]

Well, not only is it a sickness, but I question my sanity a lot with doing this stuff. If all goes well and there is enough interest in what I'm doing, I will have the intake scanned and then research what a limited run production would cost. The great thing about this project is that it would bolt up directly to your heads.

[RAIV-Z]

Originally Posted by jdw_poncho

4.370

I had a couple issues with SCE running out of stock for the last set of gaskets. It took 5 weeks to receive them. Make sure you have a extra set or buy from flatout, thats who Im using now.

Do you have a P# for the flatout head gaskets?

[jdw_poncho]

Originally Posted by RAIV-Z

Do you have a P# for the flatout head gaskets?

I do, let me look when I get home tomorrow.

[jdw_poncho]

Originally Posted by RAIV-Z

Do you have a P# for the flatout head gaskets?

Looks like 9761, but I wrote down a bunch of notes that dont make sense to me now so dont count on that just yet. I just called them to see if he could jog my brain a little. He is sending over 2 drawings for me to look at. I think the 9761 is a gasket for a billet head. Not sure who that was made for orginally. The second is a standard 455 with no water holes and has valve reliefs depending on the bore size.

I had to request a bare copper gasket last time. I think you can get them rubber coated or bare. I wasnt sure how the rubber would act on the double orings.

[RAIV-Z]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Just a thought for you as far as head gaskets go. Flattout gaskets has made all kinds of crazy copper gaskets for us over the years, no water holes, special placement water holes, special size water holes, offset bore spacing, 9/16" stud holes, the list is almost endless. They can produce in at least 10 different thicknesses, 2 different hardness values, coated or non-coated, and you are dealing with an owner who knows and likes Pontiacs. They can produce any bore size in .005 increments so you won't have to compromise. That's why we use them. Total crazy special gaskets in 10 days the longest wait. If you haven't committed, call them and ask for Mark Adelizzi. He is the president. Tell them you have a very special Pontiac application and they will take good care of you.

Thanks, I'll check them out.

[jdw_poncho]

Ok after my emails with Mark I remember what my issue was last year. The gasket they had didnt have the 4 pushrod notches on each gasket. He wants a old gasket to match one up.

Sounds like we need the same gaskets. If your not ready to buy I'll send him one of my old SCE's for a pattern. I forgot with my cv-1's I had to notch the gasket for the PR, the SCE's already have them in it.

One difference between SCE and flatout was SCE offered a softer gasket than flatout. I asked Mark again today and he recommended the hardest gasket for my combo. I cant believe your combo would be much different than mine.

[RAIV-Z]

...

[RAIV-Z]

No wood chips in the engine.-------------------------------------Check
No chipped valve springs.----------------------------------------Check
No metal shavings in crank snout.--------------------------------Check
No bent valve spring cups.---------------------------------------Check
No metal specs in oil pan.---------------------------------------Check
Helicoiled rocker stud holes.------------------------------------Check
Helicoiled exhaust bolt holes.(bottom only)-----------------------Check
Rocker stud surface machined flat.-------------------------------Check
Camshaft with LS1 firing order.----------------------------------Check
Harmonic balancer appropriate for application.-------------------Check
Crankshaft polished and installed without tool marks on journal. Check
Engine block dry decked and O-ringed.----------------------------Check
Heads dry decked and O-ringed.-----------------------------------Check
Coolant holes in head drilled and tapped.------------------------Check
Spring seat pressure appropriate for intended use.---------------Check
Rocker studs with incorrect shank length removed.----------------Check
Substandard rocker arms removed.---------------------------------Check
Sloppy fitting timing chain removed.-----------------------------Check

Headers can actually be bolted to heads with all header bolts installed.--In-progress
Headers can be installed with tall valve covers.-------------------------In-Progress
Valve train misalignment issues resolved.-------------------------------In-progress

Should be making actual forward progress soon. This re-do stuff is a pain in the arse.

[RAIV-Z]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

So how tall are the "O"-rings protruding from the block deck and the head deck surfaces?

How thick of a Head Gasket (Assume Copper) are you using?

Tom Vaught

.041 stainless wire protrudes ~0.013

Copper gasket will be 0.080

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by RAIV-Z

...

its back from where?

[RAIV-Z]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

its back from where?

It's back from a second machine shop which resolved some of the issues I came across after receiving and disassembling the new crate engine I purchased from Lynn McCarty.

[RAIV-Z]

In order to bolt the custom made IndyCartel headers to the heads with all 8 header bolts, the top 3 rear header bolts will be installed from the top and nuts will be welded to the bottom of the header flange. The holes in the header flanges were also elongated in order to line up with the holes in the head.

These 3 header bolts couldn't even be pushed throught the header flange.

[bankbook]

Lovin those twins!

[fish13]

HI Raiv-z,


Just read through the thread after looking for NRE 1/4mile time slips and "issues".

I feel your pain. I had a 4 cyl izusu engine. Although i didn't spend huge dollars like you i had some issues with an engine build. The first engine wasn't there fualt. it was a replacement bearing issue that threw a rod. damaged the head and sump and valves. The 2nd engine was with oil galleries not being cleaned are boring and honing. This little engine had 120 thou taken off the bores and had material left in the oil galleries that feeds all the main bearings and i noticed the issue after the block was left to them with the oil pressure gauge fee removed. In returned to me with that feed with a grub screw in it.

there response after the i noticed it and cleaned it was "we belive it would not of been an issue" I called BS as spinning it to 7600rpm would of course caused grief. This was a circuit engine so lots of load and g forces with oil movement. Hell they didn't even dowel the flywheel we had to do that after it screwed the back of the crank and elongated the bolt holes. but that could of been the person who manufactured the flywheel.

And in my case after some issues i dropped a valve head and destroyed $1000 head. With no money in the kitty the car has sat while getting parts for faster stuff. Then i got new job. new shop...

Escepially with shops not being asked to do what i want and deciding after spending $1700 on EFI ECU and $220 on loom that would rather run a dizzy then 2 sensors for timing. Meaning the whole engine and box are 4 inched further infront of the front axle. instead of just infront of the front axle. Then the unfinished inlet manifold, missing throttle body parts, delays.

In the end. i spent over $10 000 just in parts and have a non working car. 6 years later
I am over it.


Glad to see you got yours fixed though