[Baron Von Zeppelin]

i like the engine , and the seats
the rest is too damd Ugalee even at 1/3 the price .

These newer Camaro's are just like - idunno - maximum ugly ??
no thanky
The TA twist they were doing on them was just as bad - probably worse really.

i do like the look of 67-81 Camaro's and the late 80's IROC Z tho .
i'm not a Chevy hater .

Only new car i like is the Challenger , and even it could be a lil better looking.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Firedup6975

Nothing personal Chris, but this is a PONTIAC Board darling.

Mary Ann

At least Chevrolet is part of GM - the company that Pontiac was part of.

For all the threads in the lobby about Ford and Chrysler products that we have endured, I think it's only fair that we are allowed to talk about GM performance cars.

If it's not ok to talk about GM performance cars here, then I think it's time to just shut down the whole board.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by MikeNoun

I actually see a little of the Volt in that back end.

I agree there is a resemblance. Is that a bad thing?

Let's go back a few years and look at cars:

My first car was a Pontiac Bonneville - circa 1960...



1960 Catalina:



1960 Ventura:



And if we turned those cars around, the front end would look very similar also. It was how you identified a Pontiac - by a distintive front and or rear end treatment.

How about a '69 GTO:



Compared to a '69 Firebird:



I see nothing wrong with having a brand identity...

[Firedup6975]

Originally Posted by The Champ

Mary Ann

At least Chevrolet is part of GM - the company that Pontiac was part of.

For all the threads in the lobby about Ford and Chrysler products that we have endured, I think it's only fair that we are allowed to talk about GM performance cars.

If it's not ok to talk about GM performance cars here, then I think it's time to just shut down the whole board.

Never said it's "not OK to talk about it" Just voicing my honest opinion to the thread starter and reminding him this is a Pontiac Board. Talk about whatever you want it's the Lobby have at it, as long as it doesn't get into a pi$$ing match or insults match, I really don't care. I realize some here have those C. Cars. I myself have had Corvettes, AMC AMX, Mercury, have a Ford F-250, and have a new Mopar, Challenger. But I don't post the latest news on the brands here on a Pontiac Board. But I never said it wasn't OK to talk about these others. One of my best friends has a bumble bee, love him dearly, just not a fan of the C. Car In fact here's mine and his together, so talk it up debate it up, just no need to get nasty or start throwing insults.

[keith k]

Not a fan of the current Camaros at all.

But there's no denying they've bolted some pretty killer hardware to this latest Z/28 version.

[pont3]

Originally Posted by The Champ

Mary Ann

At least Chevrolet is part of GM - the company that Pontiac was part of.

For all the threads in the lobby about Ford and Chrysler products that we have endured, I think it's only fair that we are allowed to talk about GM performance cars.

If it's not ok to talk about GM performance cars here, then I think it's time to just shut down the whole board.

It is funny how ANY other brand can be favorably discussed here EXCEPT other GM products. It amazes me how the company GM, created the product that is the sole basis for this board, yet the company itself is despised regardless what the other brands produce and regardless how well-received they are.

I own mostly GM products, including two new-age GTOs, a Cadillac CTS, three seventies A-bodies, including a Chevelle.

Pontiac NO LONGER EXISTS, get over it. For most here, Pontiac ceased to exist when Pontiac engines died. Then you have the extremist here who won't get past the 60's, yet they drive around in their FIAT-owned bloated-assed Challengers and think they're big ****.

Well, I wouldn't trade my '82 Cordoba even-up for one of those Challengers, nor my '82 Mirada.

Funny thing is, I don't belittle others' choices and support whatever pleases THEM. My choices aren't dictated by popular decision. Somehow, EVERY car I've purchased since the ripe old age of sixteen, (38 years ago) has been highly desirable with constant offers from total strangers. Including the nondescript '82 Cordoba.

Perhaps when that Hemi accrues a few miles she'll wish she had gone with a GM LS engine. Good luck come tune-up time replacing all SIXTEEN Spark plugs. Then again, the spark plugs will probably outlast the engine.

[LEADSOLO]

And The GM vs. GM saga continues......

Oh, well. Our future Z/28 will look great next to our Zl1.

[LEADSOLO]

Originally Posted by pont3

It is funny how ANY other brand can be favorably discussed here EXCEPT other GM products. It amazes me how the company GM, created the product that is the sole basis for this board, yet the company itself is despised regardless what the other brands produce and regardless how well-received they are.

I own mostly GM products, including two new-age GTOs, a Cadillac CTS, three seventies A-bodies, including a Chevelle.

Pontiac NO LONGER EXISTS, get over it. For most here, Pontiac ceased to exist when Pontiac engines died. Then you have the extremist here who won't get past the 60's, yet they drive around in their FIAT-owned bloated-assed Challengers and think they're big ****.

Well, I wouldn't trade my '82 Cordoba even-up for one of those Challengers, nor my '82 Mirada.

Funny thing is, I don't belittle others' choices and support whatever pleases THEM. My choices aren't dictated by popular decision. Somehow, EVERY car I've purchased since the ripe old age of sixteen, (38 years ago) has been highly desirable with constant offers from total strangers. Including the nondescript '82 Cordoba.

Perhaps when that Hemi accrues a few miles she'll wish she had gone with a GM LS engine. Good luck come tune-up time replacing all SIXTEEN Spark plugs. Then again, the spark plugs will probably outlast the engine.

Well said!!!

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Firedup6975

Talk about whatever you want it's the Lobby have at it, as long as it doesn't get into a pi$$ing match or insults match, I really don't care.

Says the person who constantly refers to the Camaro as the "Crapmaro"...

Sorry Mary Ann, but you are one of the people that constantly gives the impression that it's not ok and apparently you don't even realize it.

We all know that the Camaro and Firebird were always basically the same car right from the start. Many parts are direct interchanges. Right from the start, some of the engines were the same, the transmissions have always been the same, the rear ends the same, brakes, front end parts...

The main difference was front and rear end styling.

Our Camaro is my wife's car. When we were dating, brother to raced one (and I worked on that car). Her very first car was a '71 Camaro which I bought for her when I worked at the Pentagon back in the late 70's. She wanted to have her first car again when I bought her '72 Camaro for her birthday back in 2000.

Now I personally would have preferred a Firebird - I like the styling better and the Pontiac V8 better. Even my wife likes the styling of the Firebird better. But the Firebird wouldn't have had the connection to her past, so I spent 2 years finding the right car to build for her.

And as it turns out, I really found the "right" car. When I got the car home, I found the original build sheet and learned that the car was built within 2 weeks of our first date. When we pulled the engine to rebuild it, the date code on the block was Valentine's Day, 1972.



So everytime you post "Crapmaro" - you insult me, my wife and every other person on this board that owns a Camaro.

[bryany]

Where did I put that damn "Hurt Feelings Report" this time?

Various car makes and models-because we don't all like the same thing.

Bryan

[Firedup6975]

At the end of the day I have enjoyed ALL different makes and models, and hope you ALL will as well. Had my share of GM cars, the Vettes 2 of them, a 69 Chevelle, 2 Cadillacs, a GMC Jimmy. But I will never!! believe the Camaro and Firebird are the same car. There were not as many Birds, and yet the Camaro brings crazy dollar amounts when sold.


Anyway, enjoy your rides no matter what it is you're driving Ya see pont3 trying to fluff my feathers, LMAO! nice try buddy You are absolutely entitled to your opinion of my Challenger, doesn't bother me in the least.

[Firedup6975]

Originally Posted by The Champ

Says the person who constantly refers to the Camaro as the "Crapmaro"...

Sorry Mary Ann, but you are one of the people that constantly gives the impression that it's not ok and apparently you don't even realize it.

We all know that the Camaro and Firebird were always basically the same car right from the start. Many parts are direct interchanges. Right from the start, some of the engines were the same, the transmissions have always been the same, the rear ends the same, brakes, front end parts...

The main difference was front and rear end styling.

Our Camaro is my wife's car. When we were dating, brother to raced one (and I worked on that car). Her very first car was a '71 Camaro which I bought for her when I worked at the Pentagon back in the late 70's. She wanted to have her first car again when I bought her '72 Camaro for her birthday back in 2000.

Now I personally would have preferred a Firebird - I like the styling better and the Pontiac V8 better. Even my wife likes the styling of the Firebird better. But the Firebird wouldn't have had the connection to her past, so I spent 2 years finding the right car to build for her.

And as it turns out, I really found the "right" car. When I got the car home, I found the original build sheet and learned that the car was built within 2 weeks of our first date. When we pulled the engine to rebuild it, the date code on the block was Valentine's Day, 1972.



So everytime you post "Crapmaro" - you insult me, my wife and every other person on this board that owns a Camaro.

OK so I apologize that I hurt your wittle feelings with an opinion, and if you're insulted I apologize for that too. enjoy your ride Champ.

[Firedup6975]

Originally Posted by keith k

Not a fan of the current Camaros at all.

But there's no denying they've bolted some pretty killer hardware to this latest Z/28 version.

I've heard from my "Camaro" friends that some of these cars are so powerful, when they torqued them up the bodies on some were cracking at the roof line. That's kind of scarey.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Firedup6975

OK so I apologize that I hurt your wittle feelings with an opinion, and if you're insulted I apologize for that too. enjoy your ride Champ.

Once again, from the person that posted this:

Talk about whatever you want it's the Lobby have at it, as long as it doesn't get into a pi$$ing match or insults match, I really don't care.

I would never have mentioned anything except for your self righteous attitude.

Even in your "apology", you're insulting.

It seems you want everyone else to follow your rules, but don't want to follow them yourself.

You, as a Firebird owner, calling the Camaro a "Crapmaro" is akin to calling your fraternal twin sister a whore. And just to clarify, I am not calling your sister (if you have one) a whore, just making an analogy that I hope you can understand.

The Firebird and the Camaro are fraternal twins, born at the same time and of the the same parent(s) - and if you cannot admit that - that's your personal problem.

[MikeNoun]

The Volt back end and the new Z/28 back end do have a similarity. That's not a bad thing, I was merely pointing out the resemblance.

The new Z/28 is like the Boss 302. Designed as track car, very limited audience, I don't see anything wrong with it. Styling is subjective.

Just a correction to Champ's comment earlier, when he said "We all know that the Camaro and Firebird were always basically the same car right from the start. Many parts are direct interchanges. Right from the start, some of the engines were the same, the transmissions have always been the same, the rear ends the same, brakes, front end parts...the main difference being the styling."

The Camaro and Firebird didn't share the same engines from 1967-1981. Firebirds had Pontiac engines, Camaros had Chevrolet engines (VERY few exceptions, like the T/A 5.0, later 6-bangers, but that could be said for any GM car). And as owners of 1st and 2nd Gen Birds can tell you, VERY few parts actually interchange, or if they do, they aren't correct in appearance. Again, that could be said for any GM car, just as Chevelle suspension, brakes, etc. can be used on a GTO.

I'm not sure why people were expecting the new Z/28 to be some sort of groundbreaking car, totally different than any other car ever produced, and people appear shocked that it looks like a....Camaro? Isn't that what it is? The Z/28 is a model on the Camaro line, it's not like GM is going to say, "Here's the new Z/28!", and it's going to look like a Viper or Bugatti.

I guess black wheels are here to stay, and I just can't get used to them. I wish they would add a chrome or aluminum dish to the outside, like the old 1980's Trans Am GTA or Buick GNX wheels. The all-black look just looks cheap to me, like an old car that lost a hubcap (well, I guess Super Bee's looked ok without hubcaps).

Amazing technology in these new cars, and personally, I give a thumbs-up to the Chevy boys for their work, just like I would with the Ford and Mopar engineers and what they've done over the past few years. Impressive performance.

[Firedup6975]

Originally Posted by The Champ

Once again, from the person that posted this:



I would never have mentioned anything except for your self righteous attitude.

Even in your "apology", you're insulting.

It seems you want everyone else to follow your rules, but don't want to follow them yourself.

You, as a Firebird owner, calling the Camaro a "Crapmaro" is akin to calling your fraternal twin sister a whore. And just to clarify, I am not calling your sister (if you have one) a whore, just making an analogy that I hope you can understand.

The Firebird and the Camaro are fraternal twins, born at the same time and of the the same parent(s) - and if you cannot admit that - that's your personal problem.

Baaaaa Haaaaaa You're a hoot

[Firedup6975]

Originally Posted by MikeNoun

The Volt back end and the new Z/28 back end do have a similarity. That's not a bad thing, I was merely pointing out the resemblance.

The new Z/28 is like the Boss 302. Designed as track car, very limited audience, I don't see anything wrong with it. Styling is subjective.

Just a correction to Champ's comment earlier, when he said "We all know that the Camaro and Firebird were always basically the same car right from the start. Many parts are direct interchanges. Right from the start, some of the engines were the same, the transmissions have always been the same, the rear ends the same, brakes, front end parts...the main difference being the styling."

The Camaro and Firebird didn't share the same engines from 1967-1981. Firebirds had Pontiac engines, Camaros had Chevrolet engines (VERY few exceptions, like the T/A 5.0, later 6-bangers, but that could be said for any GM car). And as owners of 1st and 2nd Gen Birds can tell you, VERY few parts actually interchange, or if they do, they aren't correct in appearance. Again, that could be said for any GM car, just as Chevelle suspension, brakes, etc. can be used on a GTO.

I'm not sure why people were expecting the new Z/28 to be some sort of groundbreaking car, totally different than any other car ever produced, and people appear shocked that it looks like a....Camaro? Isn't that what it is? The Z/28 is a model on the Camaro line, it's not like GM is going to say, "Here's the new Z/28!", and it's going to look like a Viper or Bugatti.

I guess black wheels are here to stay, and I just can't get used to them. I wish they would add a chrome or aluminum dish to the outside, like the old 1980's Trans Am GTA or Buick GNX wheels. The all-black look just looks cheap to me, like an old car that lost a hubcap (well, I guess Super Bee's looked ok without hubcaps).

Amazing technology in these new cars, and personally, I give a thumbs-up to the Chevy boys for their work, just like I would with the Ford and Mopar engineers and what they've done over the past few years. Impressive performance.

I don't care for that black look either. Reminds me of the Imports the kids trick out. Not my thing.

[iowapub]

Originally Posted by pont3

It is funny how ANY other brand can be favorably discussed here EXCEPT other GM products. It amazes me how the company GM, created the product that is the sole basis for this board, yet the company itself is despised regardless what the other brands produce and regardless how well-received they are.

I own mostly GM products, including two new-age GTOs, a Cadillac CTS, three seventies A-bodies, including a Chevelle.

Pontiac NO LONGER EXISTS, get over it. For most here, Pontiac ceased to exist when Pontiac engines died. Then you have the extremist here who won't get past the 60's, yet they drive around in their FIAT-owned bloated-assed Challengers and think they're big ****.

Well, I wouldn't trade my '82 Cordoba even-up for one of those Challengers, nor my '82 Mirada.

Funny thing is, I don't belittle others' choices and support whatever pleases THEM. My choices aren't dictated by popular decision. Somehow, EVERY car I've purchased since the ripe old age of sixteen, (38 years ago) has been highly desirable with constant offers from total strangers. Including the nondescript '82 Cordoba.

Perhaps when that Hemi accrues a few miles she'll wish she had gone with a GM LS engine. Good luck come tune-up time replacing all SIXTEEN Spark plugs. Then again, the spark plugs will probably outlast the engine.

Agree.
I've got to say, there sure are a lot of grumpy old white guys (and MaryAnn) that really like to s**t on threads they don't like and really stink up one of the best forums on the web.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by MikeNoun

Just a correction to Champ's comment earlier, when he said "We all know that the Camaro and Firebird were always basically the same car right from the start. Many parts are direct interchanges. Right from the start, some of the engines were the same, the transmissions have always been the same, the rear ends the same, brakes, front end parts...the main difference being the styling."

The Camaro and Firebird didn't share the same engines from 1967-1981. Firebirds had Pontiac engines, Camaros had Chevrolet engines (VERY few exceptions, like the T/A 5.0, later 6-bangers, but that could be said for any GM car). And as owners of 1st and 2nd Gen Birds can tell you, VERY few parts actually interchange, or if they do, they aren't correct in appearance. Again, that could be said for any GM car, just as Chevelle suspension, brakes, etc. can be used on a GTO.

Mike

You're part right - and I was wrong to say that some of the engines were the same right from the start...

I forgot that the Firebird used the OHC 6 for the 1st gen Firebirds. Thank you for correcting me - major oversight on my part.

But in 1970, at the start of the 2nd gen production, the OHC 6 went away and both the Firedbird and Camaro had the same 250 ci 6 cylinder. You say there were very few exceptions - but the 250/6 was the standard engine for the Firebird and Camaro - and there were a literally 1,000's of 6 cylinder cars made.

The "rare" one is the 1980/81 305 SBC - I will readily admit that there were only a relatively small number.

In the 3rd gen and later, as we all know, the engines were common from the 4 cylinder to the V8.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by iowapub

Agree.
I've got to say, there sure are a lot of grumpy old white guys (and MaryAnn) that really like to s**t on threads they don't like and really stink up one of the best forums on the web.

I second that (or third or fourth it)...