[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by john marcella

The offer I made Jim would not have cost him much at all (no money , just some parts) . In return I said I would give him back a complete model head with complete cad model as well, valve profile, and valve job profile. And he would have a part # for Jesel rocker set up.
However I told him that it would require some core box changes. Not for my heads, I know a welder. But it would have taken a intake core, ex core and a water jacket core change and a modification to the core under the valve cover.
All of this is not cheep.
And as MJM puts it, no one likes being told their baby is ugly.
I made the offer because I wanted to help and I wanted something good for myself that I was in control of the design. Because there are no designs for Pontiacs that I am happy with. I chose my Pro Ports only because I was "content" with the valve placement and it had more than enough material to work with, so it seamed like the least amount of work to get were I wanted to be.

I know John M. can fix stuff himself. Quote by John M: "I know a welder. "

But here is my point again, read what John M. posted: "it would have taken a intake core, ex core and a water jacket core change and a modification to the core under the valve cover.

INTAKE CORE, EXHAUST CORE, WATER JACKET CORE, AND MODS TO THE CORE UNDER THE VALVE COVER. (Seems pretty simple to me that the whole head pretty much needed to be completely reworked to make the 1000++ hp John M. was talking about.

So I really do believe that John M is saying that the head could make Big Power WITH some serious design changes.

Tom Vaught

[David Holmberg]

IIRC Marty said his car was a double tube car and very heavy. 2800/2900 sounds right to me.

[Stan Weiss]

Tom,
You need to be a little more careful in your reading.

Stan

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

I know John M. can fix stuff himself. Quote by John M: "I know a welder. "

But here is my point again, read what John M. posted: "it would have taken a intake core, ex core and a water jacket core change and a modification to the core under the valve cover.

INTAKE CORE, EXHAUST CORE, WATER JACKET CORE, AND MODS TO THE CORE UNDER THE VALVE COVER. (Seems pretty simple to me that the whole head pretty much needed to be completely reworked to make the 1000++ hp John M. was talking about.

So I really do believe that John M is saying that the head could make Big Power WITH some serious design changes.

Tom Vaught

Originally Posted by john marcella

Well since my name is getting lumped in here, I will go on the record and say..............I believe I can make well over 1000 hp with the CV head with only porting and maybe a little weld, no moving anything. But I would also say that I could do better if I moved things around. JMO

Do I think it is the best head for Pontiacs=NO
2nd best =NO / modified(my way) =YES !!!!!!!!!

Again -JMO

[Tom Vaught]

Stan, My Point Is:

1) John Marcella can truly make 1000+ hp with the CV-1 head (if he welds on it and moves stuff around).

2) I am comparing a "as cast" CV-1 head (not reworked by a Professional Porter/Welder to Marcella's design VS the changes that John Marcella said the head would need to be offered in production (as a "fixed" head with updated design changes).

Those needed design changes would be as John Marcella posted: "it would have taken a intake core, ex core and a water jacket core change and a modification to the core under the valve cover."

So what part do you not get?

If you have to change all of the mentioned pieces: "a intake core, ex core and a water jacket core change and a modification to the core under the valve cover" to make power in John Marcella's expert opinion, what are you buying out of the box?

Tom Vaught

[Bnick166]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

John Marcella can truly make 1000+ hp with the CV-1 head (if he welds on it and moves stuff around).

He stated the he WON'T hafta move stuff around.

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

If you have to change all of the mentioned pieces: "a intake core, ex core and a water jacket core change and a modification to the core under the valve cover" to make power in John Marcella's expert opinion, what are you buying out of the box?

A 1000+ hp head (in the right hands and there may be more than one pair of hands that can accomplish said task)

Apparently, Tom only sees what he wants to see.
I have the answer I was looking for. Thank you for your input, John...it was what i wanted to hear.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by john marcella

Well since my name is getting lumped in here, I will go on the record and say..............I believe I can make well over 1000 hp with the CV head with only porting and maybe a little weld, no moving anything. But I would also say that I could do better if I moved things around. JMO

Do I think it is the best head for Pontiacs=NO
2nd best =NO / modified(my way) =YES !!!!!!!!!

Again -JMO

John,
If you did everything that you wanted to. What are we talking about? 1250 HP or more?

Stan

[Ron H]

Originally Posted by GREATGTO

Clocked wrong huh? Well just so you know Darin Morgan has evaluated Jims cv1 design and understands their purpose and reasoning for their layout , and according to him they have no design flaws for their intended purposes.

So whoever you know that says they are clocked wrong is no where near a Darin Morgan, not even in their wildest dreams. So if Darin says they are a good design thats all I need to know, but I didn't even need him to tell me what I already believed before he ever evaluated the heads.

The key point "no design flaws for their intended purposes". Which was a stock block street head, correct?

[Ron H]

Originally Posted by GREATGTO

You know what my advice was to Jim when I first met him?I said you should have made a head for a ford or a chevy, not a pontiac, just because of how ''those people' are.

I'm not sure anyone would be better off taking advice from you. Perhaps he has at some point and this is where things stand because?

[Tom Vaught]

John Marcella said: "I believe I can make well over 1000 hp with the CV head with only porting and maybe a little weld, no moving anything."

I keep seeing the Letter "I", I means John Marcella.

This means IF JOHN MARCELLA DOES THE WORK, HE COULD MAKE WELL OVER 1000 HP. You guys seem to be skipping over that IMPORTANT POINT. Where does it say "Joe Bubba" or his porter can make the same horsepower?

You posted: "A 1000+ hp head (in the right hands and there MAY BE more than one pair of hands that can accomplish said task)" MAY BE? You don't really know do you?
You are HOPING that a Bill or a Calvin can give you that magic Port Job. Bill is on version #20+ of his head, where is the big horsepower head? Is Bill or Calvin going to have the head that matches Marcella's projected HP number in 6 months, 2 years, 5 years?

You guys are dreaming again After you get the head, it still has to go down the track. In 5 years, you will still be 5 years behind.

Marcella said HE COULD DO IT, I did not read that Joe Bubba could.

Tom Vaught

Ok Pay some BIG Bucks and Get your buddy Darin Morgan to kick out a set of heads for you and then copy them.

A story I heard down at Wilson's shop:

Jack Roush tried that deal with Intakes for his NASCAR stuff. Was paying Keith Wilson to do them. The story goes, Jack gets a couple of intakes from Wilson, copies them, puts them on the track, and they do not work. His expert porters missed something. So eventually Jack sends the intakes down to Wilson to be "fixed".

When he gets the bill the intakes cost the same as a normal Wilson part but the Intakes work.
So Jack says why are they the same price, as new, when all you had to do was FIX THEM.
Wilson say, your crap is over in the corner, those are my intakes.

You see the difference? Probably you will never get it.

Tom Vaught

[Tom Vaught]

Trivia Question: You save your money and buy a High Dollar Engine from Warren Johnson for the up coming Pro race season. So Warren builds 15 engines and dynos them. Where do you think your engine is in the mix?

Tom Vaught

This question relates to the Head Porter deal above.

Time to answer my trivia question because the butt hurt boys could not figure it out:

The FIRST 5 (HIGHEST HORSEPOWER/TORQUE)ENGINES go to Warren, not even his kid gets the best engines because the kid is racing against the old man. Then the next 5 (HIGHEST HORSEPOWER/TORQUE)ENGINES go to Kurt, because Kurt is still the old man's kid.
So then your engine is going to be in the last 5 engines somewhere.

So how competitive do you think that you are going to be when your stuff is #11, #12, #13, #14, or #15?

Same deal with a John Marcella head porting job on his stuff vs a normal in the door job. You are dreaming if you think John M will give you his highest hp stuff without paying dearly for it. Joe Bubba will not even be on the map vs Gaby or John M's stuff.

So you are just going to BUY your way into the game, doesn't work that way, bub.

Tom Vaught

[GREATGTO]

Marcella is Joe Bubba , as is Gaby and every other porter around here. None of these guys are world famous as far as I know, I doubt anyone at any local track would even know who they are, talk about dreaming Tom. Darin is world famous and his word/opinion actually means something.

[GREATGTO]

Big fish in small pond syndrome

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by GREATGTO

Marcella is Joe Bubba , as is Gaby and every other porter around here. None of these guys are world famous as far as I know, I doubt anyone at any local track would even know who they are, talk about dreaming Tom. Darin is world famous and his word/opinion actually means something.

Then why the sad look on your face every time we mention actual results? O butt hurt one.

[Tom Vaught]

If you can afford for DARIN MORGAN to ACTUALLY PORT a set of those heads for you,
bolt them on something and bring it.

Otherwise it is just talk, If you have some money and kiss the right asses maybe 5000 times on the board, maybe Gaby or John M might think about give you a set of ACTUAL heads that actually work vs these DREAM heads from Darin Morgan.

Tom Vaught

You seem to have Gaby and John M positioned pretty low on the totem pole there, bud.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by GREATGTO

Big fish in small pond syndrome

You truly have no clue at all. Just because John does not come on here and blab about whose heads and intakes are in the shop and what he's doing to them does not mean it is not happening.

On the other hand if you mentioned his name to YOUR buddies at the TRACK YOU go to I'm sure no one would recognize the name. Either cuz you are alone in a driveway, or the people track are ignoring you.

You are good for entertainment I'll say that....but clueless

[GREATGTO]

Originally Posted by mike leech

Then why the sad look on your face every time we mention actual results? O butt hurt one.

I'm perfectly happy, wasn't it your buddy Kinsler that went insane on the phone over his results?

[GREATGTO]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

If you can afford for DARIN MORGAN to ACTUALLY PORT a set of those heads for you,
bolt them on something and bring it.

Otherwise it is just talk, If you have some money and kiss the right asses maybe 5000 times on the board, maybe Gaby or John M might think about give you a set of ACTUAL heads that actually work vs these DREAM heads from Darin Morgan.

Tom Vaught

You seem to have Gaby and John M positioned pretty low on the totem pole there, bud.

Tom , they are positioned the same as everyone else around here.

[Tom Vaught]

Man I would say that is a serious low blow. Those two guys have done more for Pontiac than you think.

Tom Vaught

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by GREATGTO

Tom , they are positioned the same as everyone else around here.

in a position of integrity and experience far above you? Zat wat u ment?

[Tom Vaught]

Mike, you know that all of the real players are sleeping when GG is around.

Tom V.