[Doug Hopkins]

[QUOTE=Overkillphil;4983129]I always budget an extra 100-125 bucks when I buy an Edelbrock intake. The machine shop that cuts them for me sees them all the time like this. Funny, when I phoned up an Edelbrock tech he acted like he never heard of this. Yeah right.


That is why I bought my new heads from Kauffman and not Edelbrock.

[Stuckinda60s]

Well, the shop did me a big favor. They got the manifold back to me this evening. It cost $161, though. He had to be careful and only take very shallow cuts to prevent the surface being gouged so it took more time than you might think. Between that and the setup, it was labor intensive.

It fits perfectly, I just have to make sure the ports are lined up before I lock it down.

I also had to grind the runners so I could use washers and they would lay flat.

[Mr. P-Body]

We've heard this forever. The exception is the one that "fits" out of the box. What's missed here is the "type" of intake.

In Edelbrock terms, Performer and Torker (1 and II) are "replacement" intakes. That is, they're designed to DIRECTLY replace a stock intake. RPM and Victor, on the other hand, are NOT "replacement", but "race" intakes. Even among other engine families, most Edelbrock "race" intakes require fitment. They be sure to leave enough "meat" for most applications. Really, when you spoke to the Edelbrock people, they should have explained that. Maybe the tech support for shops is different than consumers. That's where I got it.

RPM is pretty much the red-headed step-child of intakes for the Pontiac, having a limited number of applications where it's superior to either the factory Q-Jet intake (higher revs) or where an open-plenum intake would impact low-end enough to make it a bad choice (smaller cubes, 400 and down). A cracking heat crossover shouldn't be an problem, as it should be blocked.

Jim

[Cliff R]

+2 on the RPM. We found that it made LESS power on the dyno compared to a well prepared iron intake. The "crossover" point seems to be around the 500-520hp mark, from what I've seen with testing here.

If you are under 500hp or so, "cobbling" up a Shaker or Ram Air set-up to install an RPM intake is a complete waste of time/funds. That money would have been better spent working over the stock intake, where EVERYTHING fits like a glove instead....IMHO.....Cliff

[Cliff R]

PS: don't think that Edelbrock is picking on us Pontiac folks. The last BBC Performer Q-jet intake that I installed from them required material removed from it for a good fit on the block. Wasn't all that bad, about 20 minutes of grinding on the bottom of it so it would sit on the gaskets.......Cliff

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Stuckinda60s

Well, the shop did me a big favor. They got the manifold back to me this evening. It cost $161, though. He had to be careful and only take very shallow cuts to prevent the surface being gouged so it took more time than you might think. Between that and the setup, it was labor intensive.

It fits perfectly, I just have to make sure the ports are lined up before I lock it down.

I also had to grind the runners so I could use washers and they would lay flat.

Well that's great news, glad that worked out! Would be curious to know how the ports line up too.

Mr. P-Body - The one I had that fit out of the box was an RPM, and it was on an engine with round e-heads. Now that it was mentioned, about the runners needing grinding for washers, I recall having to do the same. Port line up in my case was acceptable, and I just left the intake ports slightly smaller than the head ports to allow for the difference (and prevent possible reversion).

Cliff - My reasoning for going RPM is because of my overdrive, didn't want it soggy coming off a low-rpm cruise. I went back and forth with switching to a Victor when I did the last swap, and decided to stick with the RPM. I am over the 520hp mark, or believe I am. Never dyno'd it, but similar builds made more than 520hp, and I'm a step up on the cam than those examples. Also, realize this isn't limited to Pontiac, the Olds had the same issue, and from a quick google search, saw postings on other forums for other makes. Guess it's just nature of the beast.

.

[Stuckinda60s]

This engine's a true 428, so I have to turn more rpm's than a 440 or 455. I was shooting for 500-hp at 62-6400 rpm. I did a lot of research and with the heads flowing [email protected], I picked Ace Brewer's TC 02 with 1.65 HS rockers. When I called him about my choice he said that they'd made 514 hp with that cam and manifold and it would be what he would use.

My next choice would have been an original Torker I have. That had been an excellent choice when I built my 400 with 3.55's, running 12.80's/109 and for my 462 which ran 11.80's/114, the 400 was a '64 GTO, 4-speed, street car and the 462 was a '64 LeMans T400 mild drag car I built to run 12.0's. With so many experts saying the Torker would make max hp but cost ET, I went with the RPM.

The one curve thrown at me, besides the RPM fitment, was that my original machine shop only cut the heads .020. My instructions were to do an initial cut of .025, check the cc's and then cut them to get as close to 9.5 as they could, I told them how many cc's I needed. They blew it and only cut .020 and sent them home. I've got slightly less than 9.1 and decided to try the combo and see how it works.

I think what I'm eventually going to do is use these heads on a 440. That should be a lethal combo and I can use everything I have already. But I don't want to get ahead of myself until I try this one out.

[Cliff R]

We built a 428 here a few years ago with unported KRE aluminum "D" port heads, just gasket matched and very minor blending under the valves. Compression was 10.6 to 1, Howards rods and custom flat top pistons. The cam was a 236/242/110 hydraulic roller with .361" lobes, and Crower 1.6 full roller rockers.

Dyno'd three intakes that day, port matched RPM, my own iron intake, and an aftermarket HO intake modified in the same manner.

The HO intake made 487hp, the RPM 491hp, and the iron intake 497hp, and a whopping 540ft lbs torque at 4200rpm's. Peak HP was at 5800rpm's.

Surprising how we saw the torque of the 455 and nearly 500hp, without a lot of additional rpm's......Cliff

[Stuckinda60s]

I've always liked the 4" stroke. It can make the hp of the 455 without that tire-shredding bottom-end. It might give up a little ET because it's torque band is narrower, but you can make it up if you can come out a little stronger and can have it hook.

Maybe this combo won't make the power I'm looking for, but my machinist and a couple of other guys know what my cars have run like in the past and are enthusiastically looking forward to my getting some numbers on it. My combos always ran better than expected, given the components used and the weight of my cars.

My cam is 238/244/112, .550 net lift with the intake installed at 108. The carb is a QJ done by Rick, in CA. Cliff, you know who I mean. I don't mention his last name because I don't think he's looking for any business. He's from around here, originally, and a friend of mine.

My headers are the Tri-Ys from Ron on the forum. I got one of the first sets, before he had trouble filling orders. We used them and my carb for a dyno test on a customer's engine. They made 484-hp @ 5700 on a Comp Cam hydraulic roller-cammed 406. Typical CC rollervnumbers, it did a nosedive long before reaching 6,000. The headers seemed to work well. The carb was set up for 10% ethanol street gas and was a tad rich with the race gas in the dyno. My cam is more radical than that roller and we fully expect 500. I'm not springing for $500 for a dyno test when a few drag runs will give me peak hp.

[69FIREBIRD76MM]

I installed a performer RPM on my 455, it fit fine with no issues, on the other hand, I tried a victor and I had to shave some and also the water cross over wont line up at all...Also Mr Ruggles is BIG proponent of using the stock intake and kre heads..vs perfornmer or rpm...can you tell me how much it is going to cost you to prepare a stock intake? also they are heavy...if they make the same horse power--who cares...the edelbrock intake is easier and less of a pita to change....

[Cliff R]

The Performer intake is a turd on high HP applications, I NEVER use it, and NEVER recommend it for anything that's going to make big power. It's probably OK for a 350 or mild 400 application, but quickly becomes a restrictor plate for the larger/more powerful engines.

The RPM intake is a big PITA to use with Shaker assemblies. It also raises the carb up and causes other issues requiring some "cobbling" to make it work. It has no provision for a hot air or divorced choke, so an electric conversion is in order if the owner wants a working choke.

The RPM intake is a fine intake otherwise. We use and recommend it where hood clearance will not be an issue. For most Shaker and Ram Air set-ups, we use the stock intakes. If the power level dictates, we will modify them accordingly.....Cliff

[Matt Meaney]

even though your using a Q-jet now, should you decide to try a holley, a sealing plate is a good idea. it fixed a small vacuum leak for me.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G1420/?rtype=10

[69FIREBIRD76MM]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

The Performer intake is a turd on high HP applications, I NEVER use it, and NEVER recommend it for anything that's going to make big power. It's probably OK for a 350 or mild 400 application, but quickly becomes a restrictor plate for the larger/more powerful engines.

The RPM intake is a big PITA to use with Shaker assemblies. It also raises the carb up and causes other issues requiring some "cobbling" to make it work. It has no provision for a hot air or divorced choke, so an electric conversion is in order if the owner wants a working choke.

The RPM intake is a fine intake otherwise. We use and recommend it where hood clearance will not be an issue. For most Shaker and Ram Air set-ups, we use the stock intakes. If the power level dictates, we will modify them accordingly.....Cliff

Mr Cliff, how much will you charge me to modify a stock intake, one that will be used behind a 455, 500 HP engine? thanks

[Stuckinda60s]

I used an 800 Spread-Bore Double Pumper for both the 400 and 455 applications. The response at low rpm was phenomenal! My 400 in the GTO, a 4th-gear punch at 55-mph, about 2550-rpm, and the front end would immediately pick up and stay up for as long you had room in your shorts. That was a high-gear punch with a 3.55 rear!

[Stuckinda60s]

Originally Posted by Matt Meaney

even though your using a Q-jet now, should you decide to try a holley, a sealing plate is a good idea. it fixed a small vacuum leak for me.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G1420/?rtype=10

Hey, Matt. The GTO I'm talking about is the white one on my card.

They make a 1/4" gasket that seals pretty well. It conforms to the SpreadBore configuration. I think it comes in some rebuild kits, or at least it used to.

[72LuxuryLeMansLa.]

Originally Posted by 69FIREBIRD76MM

Mr Cliff, how much will you charge me to modify a stock intake, one that will be used behind a 455, 500 HP engine? thanks

http://sdperformance.com/viewProduct.php?productID=1727

Karl

[harry k]

Originally Posted by 72LuxuryLeMansLa.

http://sdperformance.com/viewProduct.php?productID=1727

Karl

By the time the CAST IRON intake manifold that weighs 50lbs for shipping, back n forth to Canada and the cost of the SD performance mod works, go figure out the math
and for claimed 12hp gain,
if you are stock elimnator racer with a conclusive time slips maybe you will see a smidge difference
love this hobby,who said racing or sleeper looks is going to be cheap
and dont forget you still have 50lbs additional in your front end

[69FIREBIRD76MM]

Originally Posted by harry k

By the time the CAST IRON intake manifold that weighs 50lbs for shipping, back n forth to Canada and the cost of the SD performance mod works, go figure out the math
and for claimed 12hp gain,
if you are stock elimnator racer with a conclusive time slips maybe you will see a smidge difference
love this hobby,who said racing or sleeper looks is going to be cheap
and dont forget you still have 50lbs additional in your front end

Harry--I totally forgot about the shippping...and to and from Canada..probably $150-200 to ship it. plus $375 to modify..so the final cost of a stock, modify intake is going to be 500-600 dls..lol..those stock intakes sure are heavy on your back...why not use the TOMAHAWK SINGLE PLANE INTAKE. Heck my friends run this intake without any hood clearance issues..and it fits fine on the heads....you can run 10 second et with stock intakes without any mods..just ask the nhra stockers....

[tc]

Originally Posted by Stuckinda60s

There's still the issue of the runners not giving enough clearance for a socket to tighten the bolts.

I use the bolts with the 3/8 head socket size.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/m...nifold%20Bolts

[Stuckinda60s]

Originally Posted by tc

I use the bolts with the 3/8 head socket size.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/m...nifold%20Bolts

That's true, but this is kind of a stealth application and I'm going to paint it Pontiac blue. I have to grind it to relieve it for washers, anyway. They won't lay flat, otherwise.