[Baron Von Zeppelin]

My 3 cents

Gas costs a lot more than it did 10 years ago -
Computers cost a whole lot less than 10 years ago -
My take home pay has remained pretty much the same all the while -

Cars have gone Up and Down
Real estate gone Up and Down

Where does PHS fit into the math - i'm thinking greed laziness and/or mis-management.

$65 is too much increase for the same old same old.
Not a question of be thankful - its been with us constantly for 20+ years now.
Nothing new.
PHS should be more thankful for US - imho
I have not seen that in any form or fashion.
same old same old - its stuck in a rut.

If he takes it with him to his grave - and i wouldn't be shocked - all the papers purchased in the past basically become worthless. When there is no more check and balance - the system is completely failed.
Counterfeiting will make all of it worthless in short time afterwards.

[63Banshee]

Originally Posted by 68gtoMN

...

Merely complaining about something without understanding context is nearly fruitless. Perhaps YOU can put together some constructive solutions for Jim and correspond with him directly instead. I would think that this would be a useful pursuit.

Good luck!

You assume too much and the assumptions are incorrect.

I outlined here what I expect, which isn't unreasonable at all. I've also sent the same concerns and expectations posted here to Jim directly. It's his move now.

[63Banshee]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

If he takes it with him to his grave - and i wouldn't be shocked - all the papers purchased in the past basically become worthless. When there is no more check and balance - the system is completely failed.
Counterfeiting will make all of it worthless in short time afterwards.

Can't argue against these points. Can only wait and see what happens.

[geeteeohguy]

I agree with 68GTOMN. Thank goodness we even have access to PHS. Most other car guys don't have that option. People with true passion for the hobby oftentimes get persecuted for not being perfect, etc., but at least there was foresight to save valuable records and make them available to those who wanted them. PHS doesn't owe us a thing.

[63Banshee]

People with true passion for the hobby want to get the facts (decodes) correct. Thank you John V!

[68gtoMN]

I like that this is a civil discussion. With many participants come many opinions. Mine take is not to defend current practices of PHS or determine the value of their product. I merely wanted to establish some context for the discussion.

Differing opinions are expected and welcomed by me. I find value in the confirmation of the car I own or am seeking to purchase. Others may not find the same value in the service that I see. Let's hope that Jim is open to discussion about his service and interested in the feedback from the Pontiac enthusiasts who form his base. Perhaps he can make some changes to improve.

??

[dld]

I would like to asked because I'm not a 64 owner or versed in those cars . What is the problem with the bal and kas. build cars . no billing card. or lack of information in how to decode the info. on the cards. would like to see one Don

[63Banshee]

Originally Posted by 68gtoMN

... I find value in the confirmation of the car I own or am seeking to purchase. ...

That's one of my points, man. You got for your money what I did not, confirmation.

[63Banshee]

Originally Posted by dld

I would like to asked because I'm not a 64 owner or versed in those cars . What is the problem with the bal and kas. build cars . no billing card. or lack of information in how to decode the info. on the cards. would like to see one Don

See my decode thread in this forum. John V explains most of it there.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=734768

Another

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=734821

[dld]

Originally Posted by 63Banshee

See my decode thread in this forum. John V explains most of it there.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=734768

Another

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=734821

Thanks, maybe I can find someone here to put some lite on it. made copies to carry around. As stated prior know a few old guys from plant.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

I agree with 68GTOMN.

Me too!

And 68GTOMN and I have disagreed on many other issues...

But I paid my money in 1992 (I think it was $25.00 at that time) to confirm my KC plant 1964 was a GTO. The PHS did that. I have learned that some of the options I thought the car had, it didn't and that some of the options I didn't think it had, it did.

But the VALUE to me in 1992 was the confirmation of a real 1964 GTO convertible. Once I KNEW that, my decision to do a frame off restoration was made.

If the price had been $100.00 back in 1992 - I still would have purchased the PHS packet.

[63Banshee]

The value for you was confirmation of the car being a GTO. That's good for you. I didn't need PHS for that reason. I already had confirmation my car is a GTO. Since the day I bought the car June 24 1988 I knew the car was a GTO. I didn't "need" PHS at all, but I got PHS for confirmation of codes and for numbnuts who think PHS is God's word. What I got instead was incorrect decoding and the headache of having to explain the documents if I decide to sell and a numbnut asking "do you have PHS? I won't buy it without PHS." regardless of the fact the POP proves more important information than PHS. If it wasn't for John V neither of us would know as much fact about our cars as we do now. Value is a variable of circumstance. I understand your circumstance. Why is it so hard for some to understand mine?

[Tom Vaught]

I knew I had a "rare" GTO Convertible when the lady sent me the info for the car years before PHS was in business. Rare only counts in bragging rights or if you want to sell the car to someone else. Mine was built with the mechanical linkage stuff (sourced from Rochester Products apparently from the job number.)

But now Dick B is offering an excellent repop of the same parts so the stuff will quickly not be so rare or unusual.

But I agree most with 63 Banshee because he ASSUMED that PHS would give him the correct info for his Baltimore car. "WRONG, SUCKER" (really sad that PHS does not state in their stuff that they do not have the right coding on the KC/Baltimore/Fremont 64 GTOs.) How hard can it be to state up front that we do not have the right info for those cars?

Maybe Jim M feels that if you sent in the request, he should get paid the $65 to search for the record and give you the one sheet build and the pics and the other stuff he sends out. But I figure that when you send in a VIN that starts with 824M it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out you have a KC built 64 vehicle and it is either a 326 or a 389 engine.

Tom Vaught

In some of the other posts, it was suggested send in your credit card info to save time.
Be a cold day in hell before any credit card info goes on any fax machine these days.

[63Banshee]

Yeah, I got sandbagged. I hope for what I asked for (unhighlighted docs, etc) to rectify the situation, but don't have anymore expectations. Fool me once...

[bluebird455]

LOL, You sure assume a lot. I authenticated the car before buying it, not hard to do, it's a Pontiac. I decided to get the PHS a few months later, just to have in case I sold it and someone asked for it. And anybody that would have received what I did, would have been upset and dissapointed whether it was for a simple Lemans or a RA IV; SD455 or Judge. The price did not matter, cause as I said The docs. were unreadable and totally worthless. What really bothered me was the way he acted, Unprofessional and Rude. So much for standing behind his service and passion for the Hobby.

[Sidponcho]

You are quite naive if you think that PHS doesn't take advantage of having all these records. Our world of classic Pontiacs is a small world with a small number of well connected individuals. I have seen this first hand.

Back to the original post: Unless I had some reason to suspect a car has some special heritage, I would not spend the money.

[gto_ron]

OK
I've been following this thread for several days. I haven't used PHS since around 2002. I was very pleased with the documentation I received then. But, my car is a Pontiac-built car so I know the info is accurate. I expected the price would go up over the years but if you've got a Pontiac-built car the documentation is worth every penny. Almost every GTO I see for sale proudly displays 'PHS documented'.

The idea of counterfeiting these documents never occurred to me and I hope it doesn't start showing up. I paid extra for the window invoice but it's a nice addition.

At $65 it's a bargain but I agree PHS should inform customers that Fremont & KC cars have questionable documentation.

[Willshire]

I see a lot of "PHS documented" cars for sale. Am i such the hardcore Pontiac guy that the car i buy from you has to be exact to the build sheet? Nope. Is my 64 GP gonna have the PHS? Likely not. It has a tripower that i installed. Might put in a rear speaker, trunk release and power antenna. There are still lots of parts i need to throw 65 bucks at so PHS will have to wait. I would prefer you added equipment over the original build, worth more to me. And the only people that PHS 'might' matter to is you and the guy you may be selling it to. The bystanders you entertain with your car don't care, they just oggle at it as you drive by. I, like a lot of guys, want my car my way phs or not. I'm new to pontiac muscle so my opinion isn't worth 2 bags of flaming dog****! But paying more and getting less seems to be a trend these days.

[Willshire]

Originally Posted by gto_ron

OK
I've been following this thread for several days. I haven't used PHS since around 2002. I was very pleased with the documentation I received then. But, my car is a Pontiac-built car so I know the info is accurate. I expected the price would go up over the years but if you've got a Pontiac-built car the documentation is worth every penny. Almost every GTO I see for sale proudly displays 'PHS documented'.

The idea of counterfeiting these documents never occurred to me and I hope it doesn't start showing up. I paid extra for the window invoice but it's a nice addition.

At $65 it's a bargain but I agree PHS should inform customers that Fremont & KC cars have questionable documentation.

It sure would be nice if i could get a posi upgrade for 38 bucks! lol

[bluebird455]

Like I said, I got it in case someone asked for it. I don't need phs to prove or authenticate any Pontiac that I've owned. it was the first time I got it, and the last. Whether you or anybody here disagrees with my opinion of the service and the way Jim handled our issue is Irrelevant, I don't care. Am not looking for simpathy or support. I was just telling my side of the story. Enough said!