[BlackdeathGN86]

Hi everybody, my name is Alex and my dad referred me to you guys for some advice/opinions. I currently am a turbobuick guy, daily driving my 1986 Buick Grand National. Of course it has some mods, but I have strayed away from beating on the car, in fear of breaking the thing (which happens often). Watching all of this racing and people having fun with some v8s has caused me to have the urge to build a V8 machine. My friend and I will be bulding it together, and it will not be a show car, this will be considered a partially hacked together race car with streetable manners.

With that being said, I need some advice on where to start.

At first I was thinking LS/T56 swap into a regal. I am fond of Gbodies, but do not really know how it would work out trying to fab a manual into one (I have minimal fabbing skills, and don't know how to weld...and would like to steer away from that route, this will not be a multi-thousand dollar build).

I was talking to my dad earlier, he is actually on the forum and owns an '05 GTO as well as a 1971 Pontiac Lemans with a Pontiac 350. He then brought up the bright idea- "Hey kid, why would you do an LS swap, when you can stick a Pontiac 400 in that Regal, it will haul ass and it won't be exactly like everyone else, also being not as costly to build."

So, my plan is in a few months my friend and I will have enough $$ saved up to buy a roller, and purchase a 400, whether it be a bare block or a shortblock. My dad already has some heads we can use, a crank, rods, etc......I would like to stick a manual transmission behind this motor, what would you guys recommend? What kind of vehicle would be most convenient and cost effective to put this kind of drivetrain into? What would be the first thing you would do to make the most power?

Thanks for reading anybody, ANY input at this time would be great.

[rohrt]

Welcome

You need some goals and a budget even for a partially hacked together race car with streetable manners.

Sounds like a fun build. However motor swaps can be a PITA. Header fitment, batery cable, pulleys, steering pump, motor mounts all have to be worked out.

Also going in on cars with a friend can be a bad idea. It always sounds better in theory, but hey its your call.

I like the Gbodys too.

Spend some time searching on 400 builds in the Street and Race section to get some ideas on what you want to do and how much you need to spend.

[69goatboy]

I think there is a forum member that stuck a poncho mill in a mid-80's Monte SS.
I forget the guys name, maybe someone else knows who I'm referring to?

Anyway, I would think that this guy might be someone to reach out to for advice.

Good luck, and post some pics along the way!

[BlackdeathGN86]

Thanks for the input guys.

Reading more and more, I think a realistic goal without going all out on a 400, would be 400/400....to the wheels. Budget? Well, we all know how "budgets" go....but I think for starters it would be around 5k, including a roller and an engine/trans. Going halves on a car makes it easier to have fun, and this is one of my boys, so we'll see....he's pretty excited about it. I believe as long as we set down rules and guidelines when we're done it will be really cool to go race it together.

Now one thing, 5k for a roller and engine/trans and some of you may be thinking "holy ****, youre doomed." now that may be possible, but were talking a 1,000 dollar shell, regardless of condition (as long as it is not destroyed or looks like complete swiss cheese) and most likely a 400 off of craigslist. Still don't know what kind of trans will fit this job the best?

69goatboy, if you find out who did that, please let me know! That would be some awesome insight.

[69goatboy]

Originally Posted by BlackdeathGN86

69goatboy, if you find out who did that, please let me know! That would be some awesome insight.

I found the thread that I was thinking about, but it's a 5.7L in a MC, not a poncho mill.
Still, the guy may be able to point you in the right direction on some things.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...ht=monte+carlo

[cdrookie]

somebody makes motor mounts for a g body conversion, don't remember who though. IIRC 75(somewhere around there) pontiac went with the clamshell motor mounts on their blocks so they will bolt to typical gm frame mounts. someone also makes headers for the g body conversion but guess what? i don't remember who! tranny wise an borg warner t10 or muncie would be your best bet for no fab work to tranny tunnel. i'm betting a manual tranny will be a budget breaker though.

i've put a 400 in a cutlass, just drilled a couple new holes in the crossmember, and put a 455 buick in one also. same deal but had to cut a hole in the ac cover for valve cover clearance. just had log manifolds on both though. 5k will go quickly so better figure out what your long terms plans are for this car. if there is none i'd save the money and spend it elsewhere.

[Wareagle]

Heres what you might be thinking of - Jim Wangers Ponte Carlo - HP Pontiac engine - 440 ci. - think its a 455SD with a 428 crank - runs 9's in the 1/4

[BlackdeathGN86]

Cutlass sounds like a good idea. Also a muncy just sounds...right.

The car is going to be a "street demon". This will be a car, when we wanna go beat on something, or go to the track, or just have some fun, this will be it. He drives a little Lancer and is dying to build something, and I drive a GN and want to build something as well. He is thinking about moving up here and were going to get a place with another buddy of mine....it is going to be one of those epic builds that everyone looks at and says "that is badass". My dad gave me the idea of a Pontiac 400, and since hes so fond of the Pontiac scene, this motor will do the trick!

Also, I have a question. Im doing research, and it does not look like its going to be as easy as I thought to put a manual trans into a gbody....don't really know what to do now lol. Maybe an older cutlass? I want to steer away from an auto for a change. What would you do?

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by BlackdeathGN86

Im doing research, and it does not look like its going to be as easy as I thought to put a manual trans into a gbody....don't really know what to do now lol. Maybe an older cutlass? I want to steer away from an auto for a change. What would you do?

Grand Prixs from 1978-1979 could be had with a 4 speed on the floor, but we're talking a pretty rare car here. Cutlass and Monte Carlo as well I believe. Look in the "Other" Pontiac section down below and you'll find plenty of threads over the years with pictures and info on what parts you are looking for. Expect to either pay up or hunt forever on such a conversion setup though. A TH350 would be much easier and drop right in.

As for motor mounts, find a set of 301 frame and block mounts for a 1978-1981 Grand Prix (pretty easy to come by) and your 400 will drop right in. Shouldn't have to modify the AC evaporator box, but I'm fuzzy on that detail.

Biggest problem in building such a car will be stiffening the suspension so it doesn't twist the body up and finding a rear end that will handle the torque and not disintegrate.

[mikeb]

Sounds like a fun build. Stay away from the thin 557 block, and when you build it I'd spring for some aftermarket replacement rods (about $300) and forged pistons to keep the short block happy. Also, Pontiacs make TORQUE so you don't need to spin it to the moon to make power - forget the 4.56's and think 3.73's or 3.55's with that light body. Your 400 will probably be all done by about 5800 rpm.

You might pick up a copy of Jim Hands book to get an idea of what factory parts can do.

400's can easily become 455s with an aftermarket crank kit, but that's probably going to bust your $5k budget. You could go with a 455 block but they are getting real hard to find and they aren't as strong as a good 400 block; if you want a 455 it's probably better to grow a 400.

Ditto what Ben said about stiffening the body. That Pontiac is gonna twist it.

Have fun!

[A.W.Dille]

I have an 85 Grand Prix that I did the V8 conversion on. Just as Ben M said the early G-Body GP's with the 301 is the easyist to do this swap. Also some 78-80 Regals had the 301 Pontiac installed from the factory also. The 7.5 rearend in these cars is not strong enough to handle alot if you go to beating on them. Mine is a driver but may see a little track action in the future. The Turbo 350 trans is a good choice for this application and no cutting of the A/C system with the Pontiac engine. Welcome and check the forums and buy all the Pontiac literature you can so when you build you won't have problems in the future.

[BlackdeathGN86]

Thanks for the input everybody. My dad just told me there is a 75 Trans Am 400 motor in the junkyard right now...would this be a desirable block for my goals? He wants to pull it out.

[RA462]

Pontiac engine in a G-body? That's just crazy! Here is my $400 G-body idea that was just supposed to be a cheap home for a 455 I had. I blew the idea WAY out of proportion over the 15 or so years I have had this car. Different is good. Mad dog headers is the one manufacturing headers for G-body now but I made my own. I actually have some solid motor mounts I made if your interested.

[BlackdeathGN86]

If i end up going this route, I will definitely contact you about those mounts. It's still in the development stage, not sure what I wanna do yet......I really would like to make 400/400 to the wheels, but doing some research, it doesn't seem as easy as I thought. Anybody have a guesstimate on how much it would cost to put that much power to the ground?

[Wareagle]

Originally Posted by BlackdeathGN86

If i end up going this route, I will definitely contact you about those mounts. It's still in the development stage, not sure what I wanna do yet......I really would like to make 400/400 to the wheels, but doing some research, it doesn't seem as easy as I thought. Anybody have a guesstimate on how much it would cost to put that much power to the ground?

Jim Wangers Pontiac powered Monte Carlo easily makes that @ the rear wheels as for my previous post

[69goatboy]

Originally Posted by BlackdeathGN86

Thanks for the input everybody. My dad just told me there is a 75 Trans Am 400 motor in the junkyard right now...would this be a desirable block for my goals? He wants to pull it out.

Check the part number on the block (near the distributor hole).
If it ends in 557, it's probably not a good choice for a power build.

[BlackdeathGN86]

It looks like it ends in 627

[BlackdeathGN86]

I apologize. We just found out it is a 1976 XZ 400

[Half-Inch Stud]

We have a 455 pontiac in the 85 GP. It's good. The headers for g-body are the tough part, while all else is easy enough.