[69 RA GTO]

Originally Posted by johnta1

So is this what the stripe pairing should be?


1969 GTO "Judge" Color Codes

Car Paint Color - Stripe Color

Starlight Black - Yellow/Red/BLUE
Cameo White - Yellow/Red/BLUE
Palladium Silver - Yellow/Red/BLUE
Carousel Red - Yellow/Red/BLUE

Limelight Green - White/Yellow/OLIVE
Midnight Green - White/Yellow/OLIVE
Verdoro Green - White/Yellow/OLIVE
Mayfair Maize - White/Yellow/OLIVE

Warwick Blue - White/Red/BLACK
Liberty Blue - White/Red/BLACK
Crystal Turquoise - White/Red/BLACK
Espresso Brown - White/Red/BLACK
Antique Gold - White/Red/BLACK
Burgundy - White/Red/BLACK
Matador Red - White/Red/BLACK
Champagne - White/Red/BLACK

Carousel Red** - Yellow/Red/BLACK
**February and later models use this color

John,

Thanks for typing up the color/stripe list in this thread. To answer your question, YES that looks correct for what appears the pontiac factory's did, and not what the book calls for. The only thing that I see needs to be added is the special order firebird color "Windward Blue" which would also have the red/white/black stripe.

[johnta1]

Thanks.

Updated:

1969 GTO "Judge" Color Codes

Car Paint Color - Stripe Color

Starlight Black - Yellow/Red/BLUE
Cameo White - Yellow/Red/BLUE
Palladium Silver - Yellow/Red/BLUE
Carousel Red - Yellow/Red/BLUE

Limelight Green - White/Yellow/OLIVE
Midnight Green - White/Yellow/OLIVE
Verdoro Green - White/Yellow/OLIVE
Mayfair Maize - White/Yellow/OLIVE

Windward Blue - White/Red/BLACK
Warwick Blue - White/Red/BLACK
Liberty Blue - White/Red/BLACK
Crystal Turquoise - White/Red/BLACK
Espresso Brown - White/Red/BLACK
Antique Gold - White/Red/BLACK
Burgundy - White/Red/BLACK
Matador Red - White/Red/BLACK
Champagne - White/Red/BLACK

Carousel Red** - Yellow/Red/BLACK
**February and later models use this color

[gto4evr]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Thanks.

Updated:

1969 GTO "Judge" Color Codes

Car Paint Color - Stripe Color

Starlight Black - Yellow/Red/BLUE
Cameo White - Yellow/Red/BLUE
Palladium Silver - Yellow/Red/BLUE
Carousel Red - Yellow/Red/BLUE

Limelight Green - White/Yellow/OLIVE
Midnight Green - White/Yellow/OLIVE
Verdoro Green - White/Yellow/OLIVE
Mayfair Maize - White/Yellow/OLIVE

Windward Blue - White/Red/BLACK
Warwick Blue - White/Red/BLACK
Liberty Blue - White/Red/BLACK
Crystal Turquoise - White/Red/BLACK
Espresso Brown - White/Red/BLACK
Antique Gold - White/Red/BLACK
Burgundy - White/Red/BLACK
Matador Red - White/Red/BLACK
Champagne - White/Red/BLACK

Carousel Red** - Yellow/Red/BLACK
**February and later models use this color

Don't forget to point out that ** asteriks, should have another asteriks on it since factory cars didn't necessarily follow those cutoffs, I've got a 03C Framingham CR Judge that had original stripes on it that were yellow/Red/Blue, not the black, so it could be a plant thing or running out the stock when it came to the actual change over from blue to black.

[johnta1]

Update II:

1969 GTO "Judge" Color Codes

Car Paint Color - Stripe Color

Starlight Black - Yellow/Red/BLUE
Cameo White - Yellow/Red/BLUE
Palladium Silver - Yellow/Red/BLUE
Carousel Red - Yellow/Red/BLUE

Limelight Green - White/Yellow/OLIVE
Midnight Green - White/Yellow/OLIVE
Verdoro Green - White/Yellow/OLIVE
Mayfair Maize - White/Yellow/OLIVE

Windward Blue - White/Red/BLACK
Warwick Blue - White/Red/BLACK
Liberty Blue - White/Red/BLACK
Crystal Turquoise - White/Red/BLACK
Espresso Brown - White/Red/BLACK
Antique Gold - White/Red/BLACK
Burgundy - White/Red/BLACK
Matador Red - White/Red/BLACK
Champagne - White/Red/BLACK

Carousel Red** - Yellow/Red/BLACK
**February and later models switched to this color, but different plant use may switch later when inventory used up

[phoenixgraphix]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Update II:

1969 GTO "Judge" Color Codes

Car Paint Color - Stripe Color

Starlight Black - Yellow/Red/BLUE
Cameo White - Yellow/Red/BLUE
Palladium Silver - Yellow/Red/BLUE
Carousel Red - Yellow/Red/BLUE

Limelight Green - White/Yellow/OLIVE
Midnight Green - White/Yellow/OLIVE
Verdoro Green - White/Yellow/OLIVE
Mayfair Maize - White/Yellow/OLIVE

Windward Blue - White/Red/BLACK
Warwick Blue - White/Red/BLACK
Liberty Blue - White/Red/BLACK
Crystal Turquoise - White/Red/BLACK
Espresso Brown - White/Red/BLACK
Antique Gold - White/Red/BLACK
Burgundy - White/Red/BLACK
Matador Red - White/Red/BLACK
Champagne - White/Red/BLACK

Carousel Red** - Yellow/Red/BLACK
**February and later models switched to this color, but different plant use may switch later when inventory used up

Thank you very much!

[phoenixgraphix]

Originally Posted by The Boss

Are there any plans to reproduce the stripes as they were originally or will they continue to be made the way they always have been?



http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=732300

The stripe you are showing as a NOS stripe with a pinstripe is where the pink silk screened color is actually overlapping the orange. The colors are individual and should not overlap. We corrected this issue by making sure the colors did not overlap when they are silk screened. Thank you for your question.

[gtohurstjudge]

I have a question for Phoenix Graphix........I have seen your Judge stripes
on 69's (not your current ones but stripes from ten years ago, and the width of the three
colors was not uniform from door to fender and from door to quarter. On one panel the
yellow was too wide and on the adjacent panel the yellow was too narrow creating a mismatch where they joined. The factory Pontiac stripes were like this as well and I always
thought this made the stripes look terrible. I have stripes from Year One on my 69 that were
made by Dale's Cuda Shop and the widths of the three colors on the stripe are perfectly
uniform. Also on the DCS stripes I have, the two inside colors are printed on top of yellow
film, so that the yellow edge is all the way through the material, making it impossible
for the edge to wear off and turn white. This happened to factory Pontiac stripes when
they were only a couple of years old. I've had many people who own 69 Judges go nuts
over my stripes because they are so perfectly uniform and don't have white edges. How do
the stripes that you are making at present compare regarding the two issues I mentioned?
Someone told me recently that DCS doesn't make Judge stripes for Year One anymore but I haven't checked to verify that is true.

[Jack Ferris]

Originally Posted by Bet Winner

Jack, I believe that February date is a guideline. With several factories, they probably moved to the black stripes at different dates and there may have been some old blue ones stashed in the back that were used later. You might document what you can on this.

I hope you will use blue since that sounds like what it came with. If we all use these "guidelines" and use the same repo parts, it will eventually look like our cars came down the same assembly line!

No plans to change at this point. There will be a day when I will re-restore the car, and if/when that happens, it will get the blue stripes I feel it came with.

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by phoenixgraphix

The stripe you are showing as a NOS stripe with a pinstripe is where the pink silk screened color is actually overlapping the orange. The colors are individual and should not overlap. We corrected this issue by making sure the colors did not overlap when they are silk screened. Thank you for your question.

So I should read that as "We will continue to produce the stripes in the manner we believe GM intended them." rather than "we will produce the stripes the way GM produced them"?

[gto4evr]

Originally Posted by The Boss

So I should read that as "We will continue to produce the stripes in the manner we believe GM intended them." rather than "we will produce the stripes the way GM produced them"?

My thoughts exactly! Comparing those two pictures, that NOS stripe looks MUCH nicer than the reproduction stripe. The overlap defines the color change between the orange and pink stripe and makes the overall appearance much crisper.

Phoenix, how do you know it wasn't overlapped on purpose to give that pink an outline? can anyone produce a clear picture of a factory stripe that does NOT have the overlap to show it was a QC failure on the one pictured?

[gto4evr]

Originally Posted by gtohurstjudge

........ the width of the three
colors was not uniform from door to fender and from door to quarter. On one panel the
yellow was too wide and on the adjacent panel the yellow was too narrow creating a mismatch where they joined. The factory Pontiac stripes were like this as well .

This is the first I've heard of this. So the factory stripes wandered in width on 69s? I paid $225 for a set of stripes from the Paddock back in 1987 (receipt's still in the box) and they were supposedly NOS stripes repackaged in one box from what I recall the sales rep saying, never had a reason to doubt that back then since the wheel moldings I bought for my 69 from them were NOS in the GM wrappers. A few years ago I noticed the color widths on the decals weren't uniform like the Judge stripes I put on my vert from Year One back in 06 so I proceeded to flip out knowing I had to replace them for a better quality and that $225 I spent 27 years ago which translates to probably $500 nowadays was wasted. Now this new statement about the width has me questioning whether maybe they are NOS. The backing says 3M Scotchcal, just like the set of NOS decals with boxes that are on ebay right now. Is that evidence enough, or was it just that repop places happened to be able to use the same adhesive because 3M still made it? Were they repopping these decals in 1987? No matter how hard I stare at those pictures on the ebay auction, I can't tell if my eyes are playing tricks on me as far as the widths. I can see it plain as day on what's in front of me though.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-1969-GTO...8e9b98&vxp=mtr

and just for clarification, the decals are still in the box, not on a car, it's been 27 years and counting and I still haven't gotten around to restoring this car yet!

[phoenixgraphix]

Originally Posted by The Boss

So I should read that as "We will continue to produce the stripes in the manner we believe GM intended them." rather than "we will produce the stripes the way GM produced them"?

The answer to your question is the Phoenix Graphix Judge stripes are correctly produced stripes that are silk screened like OEM. Not all Judges as you have shown in your photo have the alleged pinstripe. The intended process was to have individual colors not overlaps in color which produced the "pinstripe" look due to poor silk screening.

Many of today's manufacturers of the Judges stripes are digitally printed and not restoration pieces licensed by GM. GM GTO Stripes were originally done as a silk screen with specific widths and the stripe comes it a definite point in each stripe, many reproductions are not only the incorrect widths the end of the stripes are not finished correctly. We provide restoration correct stripes It all comes down to how much you want to invest $$$ in your vehicle. Some people have show cars and others want drivers. As an individual you will have to make the choice.

[phoenixgraphix]

Originally Posted by gto4evr

My thoughts exactly! Comparing those two pictures, that NOS stripe looks MUCH nicer than the reproduction stripe. The overlap defines the color change between the orange and pink stripe and makes the overall appearance much crisper.

Phoenix, how do you know it wasn't overlapped on purpose to give that pink an outline? can anyone produce a clear picture of a factory stripe that does NOT have the overlap to show it was a QC failure on the one pictured?

We know through years of research and having original pieces in stock. If you have knowledge that the overlap was intentionally done by a verifiable source from GM we will certainly look at your information.

['ol Pinion head]

Originally Posted by phoenixgraphix

We know through years of research and having original pieces in stock. If you have knowledge that the overlap was intentionally done by a verifiable source from GM we will certainly look at your information.

Is that how the Pontiac restoration hobby got the red "Buick" style aircleaner stickers?
I see your company offers them in some form of $109 "technical decal pkg"

[gto4evr]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

Is that how the Pontiac restoration hobby got the red "Buick" style aircleaner stickers?
I see your company offers them in some form of $109 "technical decal pkg"

Snap! Apparently years of research has also proven that the uninformed have wallets as well as those questing for correctness, no need to halt or correct disinformation when there are willing buyers ready to spend money on what they think they need……The customer is always right!

Can anyone else confirm about the 3M backing and the comment about factory 69 stripes having varying widths?

[gtohurstjudge]

The stripes in your pictures are nos stripes. I have several boxes of nos stripes
on my shelf and they have the same identical top peel off layer, same backing and same mismatch from panel to panel. The factory stripes are printed on white film, so that the yellow
stripe is not yellow on the edge, but white. As I said, people who know 69 Judge stripes
who have never seen DCS stripes from Year One flip out over them because they look so much better.As I said, I heard that you can't buy DCS stripes anymore but I have not confirmed that fact. To me the variation and width and the white edge on the stripe look terrible.

[gto4evr]

Originally Posted by gtohurstjudge

The stripes in your pictures are nos stripes. I have several boxes of nos stripes
on my shelf and they have the same identical top peel off layer, same backing and same mismatch from panel to panel. The factory stripes are printed on white film, so that the yellow
stripe is not yellow on the edge, but white. As I said, people who know 69 Judge stripes
who have never seen DCS stripes from Year One flip out over them because they look so much better.As I said, I heard that you can't buy DCS stripes anymore but I have not confirmed that fact. To me the variation and width and the white edge on the stripe look terrible.

Did anyone other than DCS make repop stripes in the late 80's? I remember a big decal guy at the Carlisle PA shows back then selling the fender stickers. Wagners or something like that? He also had the a back door under the counter deal where he sold the 70-up blank vin sticker for the door that was all hush hush because those were illegal to put on your car. I don't know if that place is still in business, haven't been to Carlisle in years. I'll upload some pictures of my stripes when I get home from work for your opinion on if they're NOS. I agree, I'd rather have straight and pretty ones like I put on my vert in 06, I'll have to figure out what I want to do about these.

[Bet Winner]

These are the stripes/stickers purchased over the counter at a Pontiac dealer between 79 and 83. I cannot remember which year.

I have 4 older stickers and one newer. The newer says "Scotchcal BRAND FILM 3M" and the older ones say the same and also have written in smaller font: "MINNESOTA MINING AND MAFACTURING COMPANY".

The stripes have "Scotchcal BRAND FILM 3M" on them also.

My box has an entire set of stripes in it--not just one side--sorry that the part number is missing--it is probably in the bottom of the chest these are in.

I'm not sure how well the pictures can be seen.

[Bet Winner]

These are NOS stripes on my car that have been on there many years. There are some small mismatches on the width of the yellow from panel to panel. It is noticeable when examined closely although it is consistent enough for my taste.

When laying the NOS uninstalled stripes one on the other, it appears important to install them with just the right amount wrapped around the fender since the width changes as you move down the stripe.

[gto4evr]

Dammit, I'm back to thinking these are just 1987 poor quality repops again, the yellow width in mine just varies way too much to be acceptable on the car for me and the masking on the front doesn't look like BW's NOS ones. Interesting that his adhesive backing differs from the NOS set on ebay.