[cgeise]

Wow -- It seems the Pro- stock, F1 and comp eliminator cars are all doing it wrong. Hmmm
And Stan, I think I have read enough, you come across as arrogant and quite often make some attempt's at sarcastic humor -- your not helping your case, those that actually race know, those that dont try and teach.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by cgeise

Wow -- It seems the Pro- stock, F1 and comp eliminator cars are all doing it wrong. Hmmm
And Stan, I think I have read enough, you come across as arrogant and quite often make some attempt's at sarcastic humor -- your not helping your case, those that actually race know, those that dont try and teach.

Have you read the complete thread? I have said Pro Stock is doing it correctly. They are not making the same HP at a higher RPM. The are shifting the torque curve to a higher RPM which makes more HP. Comp eliminator is a pounds per cubic inches class and I also talked about that and why the Pickett's are running a 428 ci to 10000 Plus RPM.

Stan

[adam woodmancy]

Looks like a killer head jack.. I applaud the creativity and will to go your own way . Hope all works out well for you..

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by adam woodmancy

Looks like a killer head jack.. I applaud the creativity and will to go your own way . Hope all works out well for you..

Thank you!

Looking to put Pontiac to the front!

Had to go put the distributor in front with the BOP front mount distributor. What a nice piece that is.

Around the first of the year it's getting some stainless 2-1/4" to 2-3/8" header by Ron Rhodes!

Also, I called Dale Cubic and got on his list for a pair of dominators.

[BruceWilkie]

Rounded numbers... equal HP over 2000 rpm spread with 500 rpm range difference

617 ft lbs tq 8500 rpm = 1000 hp... 656 ft lbs 8000 rpm = 1000 hp
689 ft lbs tq 8000 rpm = 1050 hp... 735 ft lbs 7500 rpm = 1050 hp
693 ft lbs tq 7500 rpm = 990 hp.... 742 ft lbs 7000 rpm = 990 hp
713 ft lbs tq 7000 rpm = 950 hp.... 767 ft lbs 6500 rpm = 950 hp
666 ft lbs tq 6500 rpm = 825 hp.... 722 ft lbs 6000 rpm = 825 hp

Torque equals how much work. Horsepower equals how fast work gets done. One is obviously working harder to get same total work done in same amount of time.

Same weight and whatever it takes for both to be able to acheive same speed at end of quarter...

Smarter racer wins! Correct Jack???

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

Rounded numbers... equal HP over 2000 rpm spread with 500 rpm range difference

617 ft lbs tq 8500 rpm = 1000 hp... 656 ft lbs 8000 rpm = 1000 hp
689 ft lbs tq 8000 rpm = 1050 hp... 735 ft lbs 7500 rpm = 1050 hp
693 ft lbs tq 7500 rpm = 990 hp.... 742 ft lbs 7000 rpm = 990 hp
713 ft lbs tq 7000 rpm = 950 hp.... 767 ft lbs 6500 rpm = 950 hp
666 ft lbs tq 6500 rpm = 825 hp.... 722 ft lbs 6000 rpm = 825 hp

Torque equals how much work. Horsepower equals how fast work gets done. One is obviously working harder to get same total work done in same amount of time.

Same weight and whatever it takes for both to be able to acheive same speed at end of quarter...

Smarter racer wins! Correct Jack???

Bruce,
Thanks for the work. These are computer generated and so and not as exact as your because there is difference in how many RPM there is between peak torque and peak HP for each. I have shown the cubic inches I used so the BMEP numbers make sense.

Stan


535.0211_ci

_Horse__________RPM_________Torque___________BMEP
_613.676_______4700________685.750________193.284
_621.395_______4750________687.066________193.655
_629.092_______4800________688.332________194.011
_636.761_______4850________689.539________194.352
_644.390_______4900________690.681________194.674
_651.971_______4950________691.748________194.974
_659.493_______5000________692.732________195.252
_666.947_______5050________693.625________195.503
_674.321_______5100________694.419________195.727
_681.606_______5150________695.105________195.921
_688.788_______5200________695.676________196.082
_695.858_______5250________696.123________196.208
_702.803_______5300________696.438________196.296
_709.612_______5350________696.613________196.346
_716.271_______5400________696.640________196.353
_722.771_______5450________696.512________196.317
_729.097_______5500________696.221________196.235
_735.238_______5550________695.760________196.105
_741.181_______5600________695.122________195.925
_746.915_______5650________694.301________195.694
_752.427_______5700________693.289________195.409
_757.706_______5750________692.083________195.069
_762.741_______5800________690.675________194.672
_767.518_______5850________689.061________194.217
_772.029_______5900________687.237________193.703
_776.262_______5950________685.198________193.128
_780.207_______6000________682.941________192.492
_783.855_______6050________680.464________191.794
_787.197_______6100________677.764________191.033
_790.225_______6150________674.839________190.208
_792.930_______6200________671.689________189.320
_795.307_______6250________668.312________188.369
_797.349_______6300________664.710________187.354
_799.050_______6350________660.884________186.275
_800.407_______6400________656.834________185.134
_801.416_______6450________652.564________183.930
_802.074_______6500________648.076________182.665
_802.379_______6550________643.374________181.340
_802.331_______6600________638.461________179.955
_801.930_______6650________633.344________178.513
_801.177_______6700________628.027________177.014
_800.073_______6750________622.516________175.461
_798.622_______6800________616.818________173.855
_796.828_______6850________610.940________172.198
_794.694_______6900________604.889________170.492
_792.227_______6950________598.673________168.741
_789.434_______7000________592.301________166.944
_786.320_______7050________585.780________165.107
_782.894_______7100________579.121________163.230
_779.164_______7150________572.332________161.316
_775.140_______7200________565.421________159.368
_770.830_______7250________558.400________157.389
_766.246_______7300________551.277________155.382
_761.398_______7350________544.063________153.348
_756.296_______7400________536.766________151.291
_750.952_______7450________529.396________149.214
_745.379_______7500________521.964________147.119
_739.587_______7550________514.478________145.009
_733.588_______7600________506.948________142.887
_727.396_______7650________499.383________140.755
_721.021_______7700________491.793________138.615
_714.477_______7750________484.185________136.471
_707.776_______7800________476.569________134.325
_700.929_______7850________468.953________132.178
_693.949_______7900________461.344________130.033

Average_Horsepower_=__744.307
Average_Torque______=_630.501
Average_based_on_=_65_points

=======================

326.7256_ci

_Horse__________RPM_________Torque___________BMEP
_658.704_______7300________473.906________218.731
_668.896_______7400________474.735________219.113
_678.933_______7500________475.434________219.436
_688.788_______7600________475.989________219.692
_698.432_______7700________476.385________219.875
_707.834_______7800________476.608________219.978
_716.963_______7900________476.644________219.995
_725.789_______8000________476.481________219.919
_734.281_______8100________476.104________219.745
_742.406_______8200________475.502________219.467
_750.134_______8300________474.663________219.080
_757.435_______8400________473.577________218.579
_764.278_______8500________472.234________217.959
_770.634_______8600________470.624________217.216
_776.477_______8700________468.742________216.347
_781.780_______8800________466.580________215.350
_786.519_______8900________464.135________214.221
_790.674_______9000________461.402________212.959
_794.223_______9100________458.380________211.565
_797.150_______9200________455.069________210.036
_799.441_______9300________451.469________208.375
_801.085_______9400________447.585________206.582
_802.074_______9500________443.420________204.660
_802.403_______9600________438.981________202.611
_802.070_______9700________434.275________200.439
_801.077_______9800________429.312________198.148
_799.429_______9900________424.101________195.743
_797.134______10000________418.655________193.229
_794.202______10100________412.985________190.613
_790.649______10200________407.107________187.900
_786.492______10300________401.034________185.097
_781.749______10400________394.783________182.211
_776.442______10500________388.369________179.251
_770.596______10600________381.808________176.223
_764.236______10700________375.119________173.135
_757.390______10800________368.316________169.996
_750.087______10900________361.418________166.812
_742.357______11000________354.442________163.592
_734.229______11100________347.403________160.343

Average_Horsepower_=__760.089
Average_Torque______=_438.558
Average_based_on_=_39_points

[Half-Inch Stud]

Originally Posted by mike leech

I love ya man but you'd be wrong. Example; my converter flashes to 7000 i shift a 8100 and it drops to 7300 on the gear change. How much time do i spend NOT between 7300 and 8100? About .2 seconds if that...

Mike I am glad to be wrong on this. Reason: Your converter makes my bold generalization WRONG.

Could a dry clutch do that? That is where my point will stick; The Dry Clutch & (quite sadly) most of the TQ converter/combos out there. I feel strongly that about 1/2 the Converters I studied at the Norwalk launch pad were beating the revs to death for a good pull out whereas the other 1/2 pulled the car out (as) quickly with a lower RPM engine and would run a same or quicker time.

So, my point is wrong with you combo, and many other combos. So, is my point wromg most of the time?
Ahaaaaaa

SO, i happen to like TQ converters. Alot. Went "converter" in my teens. Just want to see the Converter technical Specs to be clearly recorded so we know what we're ABLE to buy, or buying. Swapping converters sucks.

We need a real good Thread on Converters, that explains how to MAKE your kind of converter with the Tight feel on the Street. Would be worthy of a Sticky.


In all my years on PY, no TQ Converter Thread has had Quality, nor been worthy.

[mike leech]

HIS swapping is the only way to tweak them to perform correctly I have found to be effective. Yes it sucks. VERY familiar with all the bolts required to change one on my sled. I've done it in the pits in 1 1/2 hrs.

Thats the deal with the stick guys, to get the slippage right without burning stuff up or slipping down track.

[johnta1]

Your comparing a vehicle that weighs about 1000 pounds less than Jacks car to his, and you believe that you have explained this? Please explain why at 1300 hp at 5500 it runs a half a second slower than a legal pro stock truck making about 1000 hp at 9800.

I take it that you are talking about the diesel truck for the 1300 HP and what about the 'pro stock truck'?

What PS truck only makes 1000 HP?

Some of these guys are talking about different HP cars along with weights not running as fast or whatever.
They were saying a low RPM car couldn't run.
That's why I posted the diesel thing. Not really saying it was an equal race.
If it was in Jack's car, it would run the same as he does now.
(actually if the diesel guy did the chassis work, probably run faster than Jack's engine )

Then they also say the HP unit is different between a NOS engine and a NA engine.
That unit of HP cares less how it is made.
HP is KING baby.

If Leech has 1000HP NOS engine and I have a 1000 HP N/A engine, in the same weight/car they should run exactly the same.

This is the pertinent info.

QFT

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by johnta1

I take it that you are talking about the diesel truck for the 1300 HP and what about the 'pro stock truck'?

What PS truck only makes 1000 HP?

Some of these guys are talking about different HP cars along with weights not running as fast or whatever.
They were saying a low RPM car couldn't run.
That's why I posted the diesel thing. Not really saying it was an equal race.
If it was in Jack's car, it would run the same as he does now.
(actually if the diesel guy did the chassis work, probably run faster than Jack's engine )

Then they also say the HP unit is different between a NOS engine and a NA engine.
That unit of HP cares less how it is made.
HP is KING baby.





This is the pertinent info.

QFT

trying to have a conversation with you is like trying to have a conversation with a liberal...deflect,change the subject, ignore the results, Make up retarded irrelevant comparisons ignoring the facts.

EVEN STANS SKEWD COMPARISON SHOWS HIGHER AVERAGE HP for the smaller engine? CAN"T YOU GUYS SEE IT?

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by johnta1

I take it that you are talking about the diesel truck for the 1300 HP and what about the 'pro stock truck'?

What PS truck only makes 1000 HP?

Some of these guys are talking about different HP cars along with weights not running as fast or whatever.
They were saying a low RPM car couldn't run.
That's why I posted the diesel thing. Not really saying it was an equal race.
If it was in Jack's car, it would run the same as he does now.
(actually if the diesel guy did the chassis work, probably run faster than Jack's engine )

Then they also say the HP unit is different between a NOS engine and a NA engine.
That unit of HP cares less how it is made.
HP is KING baby.





This is the pertinent info.

QFT

John,
Let start by saying that these graphs are computer simulations. There is a difference in what happens if you add 100 N/A HP and add 100 Nitrous HP. The base HP is 967. You see a big difference in the lower part of the curves between the N/A increase and the Nitrous increase (which is greater).

Stan

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

Rounded numbers... equal HP over 2000 rpm spread with 500 rpm range difference

617 ft lbs tq 8500 rpm = 1000 hp... 656 ft lbs 8000 rpm = 1000 hp
689 ft lbs tq 8000 rpm = 1050 hp... 735 ft lbs 7500 rpm = 1050 hp
693 ft lbs tq 7500 rpm = 990 hp.... 742 ft lbs 7000 rpm = 990 hp
713 ft lbs tq 7000 rpm = 950 hp.... 767 ft lbs 6500 rpm = 950 hp
666 ft lbs tq 6500 rpm = 825 hp.... 722 ft lbs 6000 rpm = 825 hp

Torque equals how much work. Horsepower equals how fast work gets done. One is obviously working harder to get same total work done in same amount of time.

Same weight and whatever it takes for both to be able to acheive same speed at end of quarter...

Smarter racer wins! Correct Jack???

I guess.

[GTO Dan]

I wonder where Phil Robertson stands on the RPM/HP issue?

[J.C.you]

Originally Posted by GTO Dan

I wonder where Phil Robertson stands on the RPM/HP issue?

he's more of a Harley dude, low rpm, kind of guy. His buddy Squirrel has a side car coffin Harley.

Phil for Prez

[Half-Inch Stud]

Originally Posted by GTO Dan

I wonder where Phil Robertson stands on the RPM/HP issue?

Em Are Ducks.

We all know HP gets it done the quickest. Nobody reading this is a dummy or "not getting it".

What i learned ( on the job) is 1 HP at 5252 RPM is more valuable than 1 HP at 100,000 RPM. Flywheel storage aside. Simply AVAILABLE HP across RPM is the desired goal. When the TQ curve is plotted, then the reason WHY becomes interpretable.

Clarity occurs when the 2 candidate engines are plotted on the same plot. 1-for-1 the lower RPM engine is STRONGER (more powerful)at same RPM (obvious). When the 100,000 RPM engine is gear-reduced (with friction@ inertial losses) to be in the same RPM category, the 1HP@5252 become even more clearly stronger. No contest.

An ideal Converter being "realized" can change that.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Gearsets do not have advantageous flywheel effect during acceleration. They always have inertial drag & frictional HP loss during acceleration.

A TQ converter however HAS momentum conversion, with frictional& agitation loss. The Fluid thrown.

Therefore, an engine that could DIRECT-DRIVE the rear axles with "600" HP @2-2000RPM would out-accel "600 Hp @8000 RPM"with a converter & gears. WOW I'll take 2 of those engines! Calc the TQ of 600 HP @ 2 RPM (it's scary high).

Rear tires are circa 2000 RPM on most QUICK cars huh.

Reminder 600HP@8000 RPM into a 2:1 gear reduction gives <599HP @4000RPM every time. A fella is better off making 599-600 HP @4000RPM in the 1st place. Save 1 gear. Only if our engine COULD do it.

[twooldgoats]

Originally Posted by mike leech

trying to have a conversation with you is like trying to have a conversation with a liberal...deflect,change the subject, ignore the results, Make up retarded irrelevant comparisons ignoring the facts.

...

Now, politics? Who's deflecting and changing the subject here?

Jim

[GTO Dan]

........

[Aaron Quinton]

I was getting ready to ask you how you we're packaging 2-1/4" on the 2 center ports and then I remembered it's a DRCE BBC head! Have you looked at 2-1/4" to 2-3/8" to 2-1/2"? I'm sure it will do well, you should pick up a ton.

Has any packaged anything larger than 2-1/8" on a head with the traditional Pontiac exh port outlet?

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

Thank you!

Looking to put Pontiac to the front!

Had to go put the distributor in front with the BOP front mount distributor. What a nice piece that is.

Around the first of the year it's getting some stainless 2-1/4" to 2-3/8" header by Ron Rhodes!

Also, I called Dale Cubic and got on his list for a pair of dominators.

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by Aaron Quinton

I was getting ready to ask you how you we're packaging 2-1/4" on the 2 center ports and then I remembered it's a DRCE BBC head! Have you looked at 2-1/4" to 2-3/8" to 2-1/2"? I'm sure it will do well, you should pick up a ton.

Has any packaged anything larger than 2-1/8" on a head with the traditional Pontiac exh port outlet?

I dunno