[Darth Menace]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

Well, everyone here is pulling for you. I hope you can find someone local who is into Pontiacs and knows his way around them. Maybe when the weather breaks you can attend some car shows and get to know some local Pontiac'rs.

Thanks, I do go to/take my viper to every local car show. I love it how people still flock towards a 16 year old car like that. I want the Custom S to be the same thing eventually, but the whole fam damily can go cruising. I had visions of driving to the mountains (about 3 hours away) this summer with them, but now I wouldn't feel it's dependable enough yet.

I have made strides with the thing for sure thanks to you guys (it doesn't leak like a seive, and stops on a dime). I'm thinking all is not lost, but the idiot owner before me didn't maintain it so I am left doing it. I will have to get my mechanic to do some work that I am not able to, but I have still learned a tonne and saved a lot of coin regardless. After yesterday I see strides have been made with the motor, so some effort and tuning will make it 100 times better. I dont think a sticky manual choke and -20C weather helps my starting/stalling/stress situations.

In fact it was so much better yesterday that my worry has changed to the transmission (Since I put the fluid in there after a filter change, it won't go into P and the key won't come out. I am thinking there might be a tad too much fluid in there, causing this issue, but this is another story for another day)

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by Darth Menace

In fact it was so much better yesterday that my worry has changed to the transmission (Since I put the fluid in there after a filter change, it won't go into P and the key won't come out. I am thinking there might be a tad too much fluid in there, causing this issue, but this is another story for another day)

I don't have a '69 and that's an entirely different setup from the '68....but I think that sounds like a mechanical linkage adjustment problem. On the column ignition switch models there's an assembly of some sort that ties the ignition switch to the gear selection mechanism and it all has to line up properly to lock the steering wheel, etc.
You may have knocked something out of alignment when you R and R'd the pan. Not a biggie. I can't describe it in detail because I don't have an example nearby but it's been covered here many times. Do a search.

[Verdoro 68]

Yeah, getting the key out and getting the shifter into park has nothing to do with the amount of fluid in the tranny. Like Greg said, it's probably the linkage.

If you put too much fluid in the tranny it would puke out the vent on the top of the case. Not enough fluid and you won't go anywhere when you put it in gear.

[charles bledsoe]

Hi Darth-
Didn't relize you were from Canada. The company I work for has a plant in Burlington ON. There is a PY member here that has a 67 GTO and post in the 66-67 area that is from Hamilton ON, I'm sure he would be glad to help you out some. Most all of these Pontiacs cross over in some fashion. His name is John and goes by Zavy70. His number is (905) 971-9136. Not sure how close you might be from him, but speaking over the phone and not typing a Internet post with one finger (in my case) would be the next best thing to meeting in person if you all are not to far away from each other. Give him a call I'm sure he would be glad to help where he could.

[rexs73gto]

Darth if your key won't come out , just try grabbing the lower part of the column & turning it to the left. That is CCW as your sitting in the seat. If the back drive linkage is out of adjustment a bit it won't let the column come all the way back to the resting postion. By turning the column back it will put the lock piece in the column back up & then you can turn the key to the stop position & the key will come out. Just below the key is the part of the column that I'm talking about. You will see where the spilt in the column bowls are in 2 pieces & by turning it to the left will left the key switch turn back & the key will come out. When you were under the car you may have bumped the rods & they are now loose & will need to be adjusted now & tightened back up.

[Darth Menace]

Originally Posted by charles bledsoe

Hi Darth-
Didn't relize you were from Canada. The company I work for has a plant in Burlington ON. There is a PY member here that has a 67 GTO and post in the 66-67 area that is from Hamilton ON, I'm sure he would be glad to help you out some. Most all of these Pontiacs cross over in some fashion. His name is John and goes by Zavy70. His number is (905) 971-9136. Not sure how close you might be from him, but speaking over the phone and not typing a Internet post with one finger (in my case) would be the next best thing to meeting in person if you all are not to far away from each other. Give him a call I'm sure he would be glad to help where he could.

thanks for the info. I am about 30 hours driving away from him, but I will keep him in mind.

[Darth Menace]

Okay guys, I have finished a lot of the stuff that is required to pass the provincial inspection (still have a bit more, but I am growing sick of the "business" side of fixing this thing and want to do a bit of fun stuff)

So anyway, I bought myself a timing light so I can get this car tuned a bit better and possibly get this stalling issue taken care of. That being said I have a tach question...can I just buy a regular tach and temporarily smack it in there (ex: http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/eq...-0340100p.html), or is there something special with a test tach?

Otherwise I think I have all the tools and I'd like to get this going. Very excited actually

[PontGuy]

I wasn't watching the PY board closely during the winter and missed this particular thread, and just read through it. Made me wish I lived in Canada so I could drop by and help. Well maybe not, had enough of cold weather. Then again, a ride in the Viper would be fun.

Nothing mentioned is a big problem or that unusual for a 45 year old car that hasn't really been given proper mechanical attention for a while. Just got to go through the process and get all the bugs out. Sounds like you are making good progress (at least your instrument panel lights work now!)

Some thoughts and questions on your engine. May have been covered elsewhere but maybe not.

Even if you can determine what year the block is that won't tell you what parts are in it. Very few engines are in original condition by now and many/most cars have had engine swaps for one reason or another. Do you know what the head code is? Big numbers on the center exhaust ports. That is probably more important than the year of the block. I always do a compression test on all cylinders when I have an unknown engine. And put a vacuum gage on it to see what it pulls at idle. The numbers you get along with the head code gives an idea of the sort of cam that might be in it, and also confirms that the valve train is OK for all the cylinders. It is hard to get an engine to run really good if one or more of the cylinders is weak for some reason.

Do you have all the vacuum hoses and PVC connection sorted out now? As for fuel line it seems like I always end up with some rubber hose because of non-stock setups. And I've had early cars that were built that way. Not ideal, but I never had a fire. As others have said make sure it is good, high-quality hose. And I like to double-clamp the connections.

Getting the base timing and timing curve correct is very important to overall performance. And since it is all mechanical in these cars another area with common problems. Yes the tach in the link will work to give you RPM. Nothing special about a test tach. But does your timing light have a digital readout? If so it probably has a built-in tach.

You also mentioned slop in the accelerator cable. Could be the way it is hooked up to the carb. But it could also be that the gas pedal rod assembly is bent which is very common on these old cars. Have someone push the pedal to the floor and look into the carb to make sure it opens all the way. If so you are good.

Have you managed to get the key out? The linkage rod adjustments are a pain but can't say they ever caused me a problem getting the key out. In fact on my 69 I can pull the key out even with the car in gear and the engine running, though not sure if it is supposed to be that way.

[Darth Menace]

The only problem with coming here for a ride in the Viper is that the car wouldn't even be able to get out of the driveway with snow on the driveway. Once the summer hits though, everyone is welcome to come for a drive in the viper

My engine has been apart you can tell, but otherwise I don't know any other details. I will get the head codes once I am home.

I do have a vacuum gauge, and compression gauge. I was hoping to get to the tuning and bi-pass this .

Ya, the instrument panel is working, altough super weak at best. Point is to get it working for the inspection, and I can worry about the fine details down the road.

As far as vacuum hoses, I believe they are sorted out with no leaks.

I haven't really looked at the pedal problem yet. I assumed it was an improper bracket for my carb, and I was going to go snag a proper bracket. Maybe I am wrong, but that is my guess.

Yes, I have the key situation settled. It's not 100%, but I twist the black piece in front of the cluster and the key comes out. Yet another thing to properly fix down the road, but if this works for now I am happy.

Originally Posted by PontGuy

I wasn't watching the PY board closely during the winter and missed this particular thread, and just read through it. Made me wish I lived in Canada so I could drop by and help. Well maybe not, had enough of cold weather. Then again, a ride in the Viper would be fun.

Nothing mentioned is a big problem or that unusual for a 45 year old car that hasn't really been given proper mechanical attention for a while. Just got to go through the process and get all the bugs out. Sounds like you are making good progress (at least your instrument panel lights work now!)

Some thoughts and questions on your engine. May have been covered elsewhere but maybe not.

Even if you can determine what year the block is that won't tell you what parts are in it. Very few engines are in original condition by now and many/most cars have had engine swaps for one reason or another. Do you know what the head code is? Big numbers on the center exhaust ports. That is probably more important than the year of the block. I always do a compression test on all cylinders when I have an unknown engine. And put a vacuum gage on it to see what it pulls at idle. The numbers you get along with the head code gives an idea of the sort of cam that might be in it, and also confirms that the valve train is OK for all the cylinders. It is hard to get an engine to run really good if one or more of the cylinders is weak for some reason.

Do you have all the vacuum hoses and PVC connection sorted out now? As for fuel line it seems like I always end up with some rubber hose because of non-stock setups. And I've had early cars that were built that way. Not ideal, but I never had a fire. As others have said make sure it is good, high-quality hose. And I like to double-clamp the connections.

Getting the base timing and timing curve correct is very important to overall performance. And since it is all mechanical in these cars another area with common problems. Yes the tach in the link will work to give you RPM. Nothing special about a test tach. But does your timing light have a digital readout? If so it probably has a built-in tach.

You also mentioned slop in the accelerator cable. Could be the way it is hooked up to the carb. But it could also be that the gas pedal rod assembly is bent which is very common on these old cars. Have someone push the pedal to the floor and look into the carb to make sure it opens all the way. If so you are good.

Have you managed to get the key out? The linkage rod adjustments are a pain but can't say they ever caused me a problem getting the key out. In fact on my 69 I can pull the key out even with the car in gear and the engine running, though not sure if it is supposed to be that way.

[Darth Menace]

The heads say GM on the front part of the head and the number is 067, but looking here: http://www.pontiacpower.net/headcast.html there isnt that casting number

Originally Posted by PontGuy

I wasn't watching the PY board closely during the winter and missed this particular thread, and just read through it. Made me wish I lived in Canada so I could drop by and help. Well maybe not, had enough of cold weather. Then again, a ride in the Viper would be fun.

Nothing mentioned is a big problem or that unusual for a 45 year old car that hasn't really been given proper mechanical attention for a while. Just got to go through the process and get all the bugs out. Sounds like you are making good progress (at least your instrument panel lights work now!)

Some thoughts and questions on your engine. May have been covered elsewhere but maybe not.

Even if you can determine what year the block is that won't tell you what parts are in it. Very few engines are in original condition by now and many/most cars have had engine swaps for one reason or another. Do you know what the head code is? Big numbers on the center exhaust ports. That is probably more important than the year of the block. I always do a compression test on all cylinders when I have an unknown engine. And put a vacuum gage on it to see what it pulls at idle. The numbers you get along with the head code gives an idea of the sort of cam that might be in it, and also confirms that the valve train is OK for all the cylinders. It is hard to get an engine to run really good if one or more of the cylinders is weak for some reason.

Do you have all the vacuum hoses and PVC connection sorted out now? As for fuel line it seems like I always end up with some rubber hose because of non-stock setups. And I've had early cars that were built that way. Not ideal, but I never had a fire. As others have said make sure it is good, high-quality hose. And I like to double-clamp the connections.

Getting the base timing and timing curve correct is very important to overall performance. And since it is all mechanical in these cars another area with common problems. Yes the tach in the link will work to give you RPM. Nothing special about a test tach. But does your timing light have a digital readout? If so it probably has a built-in tach.

You also mentioned slop in the accelerator cable. Could be the way it is hooked up to the carb. But it could also be that the gas pedal rod assembly is bent which is very common on these old cars. Have someone push the pedal to the floor and look into the carb to make sure it opens all the way. If so you are good.

Have you managed to get the key out? The linkage rod adjustments are a pain but can't say they ever caused me a problem getting the key out. In fact on my 69 I can pull the key out even with the car in gear and the engine running, though not sure if it is supposed to be that way.

[Darth Menace]

On second look could be an 061. Still doesnt match up to anything at the castings website

Edit: What am I talking about, I can't make out whether it is a 061 or 067

[PontGuy]

061 heads would be 1967 which would match with your early valley pan. They are pretty common and I've had several sets of these. Not bad heads with the big valves and good chambers, but would build a good bit of compression in a 400 for today's gas without dished pistons or a long duration cam. So it would be interesting to see compression test numbers. A minor downside is that they came with pressed-in instead of screw-in studs.

[Darth Menace]

Originally Posted by PontGuy

061 heads would be 1967 which would match with your early valley pan. They are pretty common and I've had several sets of these. Not bad heads with the big valves and good chambers, but would build a good bit of compression in a 400 for today's gas without dished pistons or a long duration cam. So it would be interesting to see compression test numbers. A minor downside is that they came with pressed-in instead of screw-in studs.

Okay so 061 makes more sense than my original 067 statement?

[PontGuy]

Yes, and if you can get the date code for the heads that would confirm it

Based on everything so far looks like you have a 1967 engine that is pretty original on the outside. Remains to be seen what is on the inside. Power level and running characteristics all depend on what is in there and I would be surprised if it still has the original cam. But anything is possible.

How many bolts are on the water pump? The TC cover and pump design changed from 67 to 69 but it could be either/or since both designs would fit.

None of this is bad news. But always good to know what you have.

[webfoot]

You can probably get by without a tach for now, just rev it until your advance stops increasing so you can get an idea of where you are "all-in", as well as your idle settings.

[Darth Menace]

Okay ready to start the compression test today. A few answers before I start as I see many different recommendations on the interweb:

-Compression test done with a hot or cold motor?
-Do I just turn it over or press the throttle?

[webfoot]

Should be at operating temp. Turn it over a few rotations with just the starter (should pull the wire to the distributor so it won't fiire.)

[PontGuy]

Warm engine, carb locked open. I usually remove all the plugs so that it turns over easier. Just crank it 3-4 hits and the needle should be steady. Record the reading and go to the next cylinder.

[Darth Menace]

Alright here are the results:

cyl 1: 152psi
cyl 2: 145psi
cyl 3: 160psi
cyl 4: 150psi
cyl 5: 160psi
cyl 6: 150psi
cyl 7: 145psi
cyl 8: 152psi

break it to me gently!


On another note, I want to get the car fired up again and do the vacuum test. Do I test the vacuum from the PCV port with the PCV valve removed?

Also, here is a picture of the spark plugs. They all look the same. Kind of ugly looking for having 0 miles driven on them since install (only running it has done is stuff I have done to work on it)

[Darth Menace]

Originally Posted by PontGuy

Warm engine, carb locked open. I usually remove all the plugs so that it turns over easier. Just crank it 3-4 hits and the needle should be steady. Record the reading and go to the next cylinder.

oops, i didn't do the carb locked open part. otherwise that's what I did