[73T/A]

[QUOTE=zeebo;5129817]i agree 100%. i cant stand the terms "clone, tribute, replica, dedication" types for these cars..it has cheapened the hobby and fooled many folks into buying a car that is misrepresented--especially when you cannot get PHS documents for. i think really it all comes down to $--people do it that cant afford a real one (not that i agree with the inflated prices of real ones) and clone their cars so they can command big money when it comes time to sell it. id rather have a ratty real GTO or SS chevelle than a mint clone. id be embarassed and have no street cred with my car buddies if i had a clone.[/QUO

So are all the people driving they're AC Cobra clones or 32 Ford clones,replicas,tributes embarassed and worried about street cred?I don't think so.I don't think it cheapens the hobby one bit.There is room in the car hobby for the purist and the hobbiest that like to make there car perform and look the way the want.If someone is going to spend big bucks on a car purchase do your homework.

[rexs73gto]

Gerry, I don't know about your car but most of the cars that came with the chevy or olds engines were ment for CA. The Pontiac 301 was the only real Pontiac engine in 81 & some were afraid of that engine. I don't know why as it was a good engine but some did shy away from it & ordered the chevy engine instead. I wouldn't have.

[AdamIsAdam]

So are all the people driving they're AC Cobra clones or 32 Ford clones,replicas,tributes embarassed and worried about street cred?I don't think so.I don't think it cheapens the hobby one bit.There is room in the car hobby for the purist and the hobbiest that like to make there car perform and look the way the want.If someone is going to spend big bucks on a car purchase do your homework.

I agree! To each his own. That's what I love about hobbies/cars/etc. Expression. Individualization. etc.

And HAVING FUN with them. For some, that fun is the challenge of hunting down all the parts required to restore a car to factory specs. for some it's cleaning them to concours levels (and then not driving them for fear of getting them dirty)

I like to tinker and putter with them, and then DRIVE them!

[Garry Sr]

Originally Posted by rexs73gto

Gerry, I don't know about your car but most of the cars that came with the chevy or olds engines were ment for CA. The Pontiac 301 was the only real Pontiac engine in 81 & some were afraid of that engine. I don't know why as it was a good engine but some did shy away from it & ordered the chevy engine instead. I wouldn't have.

From what I've been reading it was also the only way you could get a 4 speed in 80/81 which to me seems odd. This is a 4 speed car.

[zeebo]

[QUOTE=73T/A;5129954]

Originally Posted by zeebo

i agree 100%. i cant stand the terms "clone, tribute, replica, dedication" types for these cars..it has cheapened the hobby and fooled many folks into buying a car that is misrepresented--especially when you cannot get PHS documents for. i think really it all comes down to $--people do it that cant afford a real one (not that i agree with the inflated prices of real ones) and clone their cars so they can command big money when it comes time to sell it. id rather have a ratty real GTO or SS chevelle than a mint clone. id be embarassed and have no street cred with my car buddies if i had a clone.[/QUO

So are all the people driving they're AC Cobra clones or 32 Ford clones,replicas,tributes embarassed and worried about street cred?I don't think so.I don't think it cheapens the hobby one bit.There is room in the car hobby for the purist and the hobbiest that like to make there car perform and look the way the want.If someone is going to spend big bucks on a car purchase do your homework.

i dont have a beef so much with the ac cobras and the 32 fords as they are completely repopping the entire body/chassis now, so its almost like new production vehicles, and they are titled as such. those owners arent trying to make their vehicles into something that they are not. where i have the biggest beef is the cloning of musclecars--misrepresenting a lemans to be a ram air 4 judge, etc...its done for the money that can be made----and doing your homework sometimes doesnt even help. for instance, a little while back in hemmings motor news, a guy purchased a bogus LS6 chevelle, but only after finding out that the seller actually doctored the build sheet on the internet! he had purchased a restored LS5, doctored the paper work, then resold it for a huge profit. i believe the only way the buyer knew was someone at a car show pointed it out to him...its a scary world when there is a ton of $ to be made on cars with phony badges/stripes.

[rexs73gto]

No 80 & 81 you could get a 4 speed with the 301. Just no more 400's ever.

[71GP76TA]

Originally Posted by rexs73gto

No 80 & 81 you could get a 4 speed with the 301. Just no more 400's ever.

'79 you could get the 400 or a 301 with a 4 speed. '81 you could only get a 305 sbc with a 4 speed.

[72projectbird]

Its hard to hide a clone in the Pontiac world, so I wouldn't worry about it so much.

[ho428]

I have no problems with a cloned car, but it needs to be pretty darn close to the original. Correct engine, trans, wheels, trim package, etc...
If it's just got some badging it's just a car with incorrect badging. If the seller wants to call it a clone, that's his right, but a true clone you should have to run the Vin plate and body tag to tell the difference.

The Tribute moniker is fine for rebadged custom creations that well, pay tribute to the original, but don't pretend to be one.

[69goatboy]

Originally Posted by 72projectbird

Its hard to hide a clone in the Pontiac world, so I wouldn't worry about it so much.

For the most part yes, but there are some unscrupulous individuals out there that are being creative with swapping VIN tags and whatnot. Heck, wasn't there an ebay seller that was hawking GM style VIN tag rivets a while back?

Having the PHS is a great tool, but it's not a failsafe one.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by 69goatboy

For the most part yes, but there are some unscrupulous individuals out there that are being creative with swapping VIN tags and whatnot.

This is my only issue with them - when people try to represent them as original cars for monetary gain.

[Garry Sr]

I've been thinking about selling my 73 Formula if anyone fears the clone.

[Chris65LeMans]

Originally Posted by 69goatboy

Having the PHS is a great tool, but it's not a failsafe one.

I was watching one of those "What's my car worth?" shows a few years back, and a guy was on there with an "all-original" low-mile car. The presenter asked the owner, "How do you know those low miles are correct?" The answer was "it's all PHS certified." Huh?

[1966goat]

I have a clone. I call it a GTO because its easier to say since all the emblems say GTO. I'd love to change it back to a tempest custom but no one reproduces parts. Whatever.

If someone really wants to listen, I'll tell em its not a GTO. If there comes time to sell it, I'll tell them exactly what it is, too.

[ANDYA]

I don't consider a Lemans with a GTO hood and badges a clone. It's just a Lemans. A clone is something more specific. For example if someone found a 69 Judge in a field with a bent frame, rusted body and no drive train and decided to bring the car back they would have a clone. In this case they used the Judges DNA (VIN tag) and built a new car with a different frame, new sheetmetal and a replacement drive train. The actual car no longer exists except for the VIN tag, hence it is a clone of a specific car. Just like using a sheep's DNA to clone that exact sheep.

[Garry Sr]

I've got a ragged out 70 bird in the backyard and an extra set of trans am fenders, the thought is there just not the time.

[J GLASGO]

I see both sides on the clone issue,so I don't really care. I hate half a$$ attempts at clones,but I also don't like cobbed up non clones. The absolute funniest thing is that alot of people that hate clones,dont even have an old car!! Whenever we have an SS,COPO,JUDGE,GTO,TA,in the shop,there are a few people who come in who are so worried if its original or not,and then express there disgust for any clone. They don't have an old car,nor will they ever. I always wonder why these people care??

[AdamIsAdam]

Originally Posted by J GLASGO

...The absolute funniest thing is that alot of people that hate clones,dont even have an old car!! ...They don't even have an old car,nor will they ever. I always wonder why these people care??

GOOD POINT!!!