[Andy65GTO]

I am looking at detailing my engine compartment,trunk and undercarriage with different color paint & chalk markings as it would have arrived,factory fresh. Can anyone please tell me if there is a website or book with this info as i am having no luck searching websites. I have seen a photo with 337 chalk marked on the spare tire in the trunk. Is this correct and if so what does 337 stand for?
Thanks Andy.

[Jerry H.]

You are going to find a lot of conflicting info on this subject, and going to look at a lot of restored cars with a lot of different markings. With that being said, I can state this, I've owned and looked at several unrestored, untouched and low mileage 65 GTO's since 1979 when I did my first restoration. I owned my first one in 1969. There were very few actual marking on these cars that you can see. There are a couple of 'shift' stamps that can be seen on the firewall when you take the fenders off. Most of the firewall markings were made and then painted over with the semi gloss black paint; but you could see or feel the impression of those markings under the paint. The most common of those markings on the firewall are the exterior, top, and interior color designations. The '337' you saw would be the code of the interior. A one letter code for lower exterior color and letter (or number if vinyl or convertible top) code for the top. Example: AA would be Starlight Black bottom and top. A-2 would be Starlight bottom and black vinyl or convertible top.

As far as the undercarriage, the driveshaft has a 2 line painted code, the rear end pumpkin has a splash of paint on the bottom next to the pinion designating the axle ratio, the steering box has a spot of paint on the top of it, and there are probably some other splashes of paint that would represent when a certain bolt or part had been properly torqued, but I haven't seen any documentation as to when and where those would go. I've just sure seen a lot of cars with that on there!

You'll probably run across some cars with some 'part number' stickers on parts like springs, sway bars, etc., but I'll bet these didn't last past the first puddle or rain shower.

[Keith Seymore]

The only markings on the firewall on my car are a large "A-A" in the center of the firewall, and a small "ok" under the voltage regulator.

There is also a small ink stamp on the cowl side that says "Elect Test ok".

Normally if you see any digits they will relate to other option content, or (more likely) to the final line build sequence number. Theoretically those should appear on any component that was prepped off line and then conveyed to the main line in sequence (rear axle pumpkin, inside one wheel, front of dash, radiator support, grille, inside the hood, inside the fenders, inside or under the seats, etc. Those were all clearly marked on my pickup truck, for example).

K

[dld]

As Keith said. Jobs off line could or do have a Job number on them . Like the 4 tires and the spare. the seats and interior trim . My 65 Bal. car has a job # on the trim tag. These would reset when reaching 1000 as i understand.

All of the paper tages you see out there are the wrong codes . They are generic. you will have to make your own. springs shocks ect . also inspectors stamps.

search this 64 65 tech forum for old threads on this subject. we have discussed this

[62 bv]

where would i find the job number on the my phs or trim tag thanks brody

[62 bv]

hi its a 64 gto out of Fremont thanks

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by 62 bv

where would i find the job number on the my phs or trim tag thanks brody

I think Baltimore (and maybe Fremont) were the only plants where the cowl tag had a build sequence number and where it may have meant something (because they built "straight through", if I understand correctly). For a Pontiac Michigan plant build you won't. The cowl tag information is specific to body shop (weld shop). In Pontiac the build order could be shuffled after body shop and then again after paint before general assembly.

PHS does not retain cowl tag information.

The chalk marks (tire crayon, actually) were for coordinating the material through general assembly (final line). It may correlated to the "line number" shown on the build sheet for a Pontiac plant build but I have not attempted to confirm that.

K

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by dld

As Keith said. Jobs off line could or do have a Job number on them . Like the 4 tires and the spare. the seats and interior trim . My 65 Bal. car has a job # on the trim tag. These would reset when reaching 1000 as i understand.

Baltimore may be different (based on your comments and from HFR) but in the plants I've worked in the General Assembly sequence number just keeps climbing, but the operator will write the last two or three digits in a form of shorthand.

For example, the build sequence number for my Flint built pickup was perhaps 317887 but the components have just "87" written on them. He could have written "887" as well, depending on the plant process and preference.

K

[dld]

Here is pic of my 65 tag. I have never seen #'s larger than 999 as job #. there appears not to be room on broadcast sheet for more than three digits . this number was assigned buy Fisher I would think it would carry throughout line.

At 45 or so cars a hour that would cover about 3 1/2 shifts. witch I think was above average for 65 A body builds from what I here.

[Option 382]

dld, The 1st picture, is that sheet labeled "passenger car broadcast copy" or "1965 car building order" like Seymore's paperwork?

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by dld

This number was assigned buy Fisher I would think it would carry throughout line.

Good info; For Baltimore apparently (which I am glad to see), but not for Pontiac and other plants.

Fisher Body was its own seperate entity and was not responsible for anything other than the completed body itself (both interms of design and assembly). The relationship between Fisher Body and the nameplate divisions (Chevrolet or Pontiac) was somewhat antagonistic, usually meaning that Fisher was not going to one whit of work more than was absolutely within their realm of authority.

This, and the fact that the build order could be shuffled around before final assembly, would make a sequence number on the cowl tag irrelevant at most plants.

Originally Posted by dld

At 45 or so cars a hour that would cover about 3 1/2 shifts. witch I think was above average for 65 A body builds from what I here.

Pontiac normally ran around 60 jobs per hour in the mid 1960s, with gusts up to 70 jobs per hour by the early 1970s (final line). Feeder lines, body shop and paint shop ran slightly faster than that in an attempt to keep the buffers/accumulators full. 45 jph strikes me as kind of "slow" but my perception may be skewed by all those boom years with full size truck, so it may be accurate for most '65 A body assembly plants. I'd be curious to know what the Fremont line rate was.

K

[dld]

some what confused. Pontiac assembly per line count and sq footage seems smaller

[Keith Seymore]

By way of reference: Fremont = 42 jobs per hour.

K

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by dld

some what confused. Pontiac assembly per line count and sq footage seems smaller

Any idea what year the chart was produced? There's not much correlation to my own personal experience.

I know for a fact Flint Line 1 should be 60 jobs per hour and Flint Line 2 at 36 jobs per hour.

Fremont is not shown; I wonder if it is from prior to 1964 calendar year.

I'd throw it in the trash. Usually by they time some clerk makes a chart like that to show upper management the data is already obsolete.

K

[dld]

Think chart was late 60's AFAIK. my 65 Balto. plant source conveyed the Fremont plant was the worst plant in the mid 60's. Conveyed the plant had culture issues. He told me Balto. did not do 60 per hour until the early 70's For the Three car lines built I'm sure chevelle was most built.there but from my cruise days 60's 70's there were more GTO's in my area than SS chevelles

[62 bv]

hi hears a copy of my trim tag can you tell me if the 645 or the 8261 is the number that i need

[dld]

Originally Posted by Option 382

dld, The 1st picture, is that sheet labeled "passenger car broadcast copy" or "1965 car building order" like Seymore's paperwork?

It's a broadcast card for Fisher. found under front seat in springs.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by 62 bv

hi hears a copy of my trim tag can you tell me if the 645 or the 8261 is the number that i need

Agree; that's a Fremont tag;

645 would be the body shop sequence number (645th A body convertible for the year); I'd guess 8261 is the general assembly sequence number.

Do you see the 8261 (or "261" or "61") anywhere else on the car? Front of dash, inside the fenders, behind the grille, on the rad support, etc?

That's a pretty early Fremont build, if they started car production on Sept 3, 1963 and this car body was built the 4th week of December of '63. Pretty cool.

K

[Option 382]

The reason I asked dld about your broadcast sheet is my car was made 2 weeks after your car in the same plant but I do not have a job number of that sheet. Your format looks more like Keith's than mine. BAL might have changed things right at the 1st of the year.

[Keith Seymore]

The format of the sheets do vary slightly based on the area of the plant they are being used in, even within the same plant.

For example, a broadcast for the seat cushion room might look slightly different than the one for general interior assembly; the chassis line broadcast would convey slightly different information than the motor line broadcast, etc, because the information needed is different.

K