[Will]

Should this be in the race section...?

I want to run my '73 on the road course. That means, high G cornering and extended higher RPMs. So, naturally, I want to do whatever I can to put the best oiling system in it possible.

I have a roadrace oil pan. I also have a crank scraper and a Canton windage tray. Should I run both the scraper and the tray, or just one or the other? I've heard arguments for each configuration and in my last engine I had both the scraper and tray installed and didn't have any oiling issues, but the car was only driven on the street and at the drag strip.

Other planned mods:

- Tap feed and return holes in block to the oil filter adapter for AN fittings and run a big remote filter.
- Run an oil accumulator.
- Match oil pump outlet hole to block inlet hole.
- Shim relief spring in pump 1/8"
- Match oil feed holes in main bearings to holes in block.

What else makes sense? Oil cooler? Above what oil temps does a cooler become beneficial?

Lifter feed restrictors? I'll probably be running a solid roller so that may not be the best idea for lifter wheel longevity. Maybe restricted pushrods? I know oil is important for cooling the valvetrain so not sure about restricting the feed to the top end.

Any other suggestions appreciated.

[steve25]

I think you`ve got it covered but for the oil plug by the dizzy being drilled with a .030" hole to lube the gear and then seeing as you`ve got a pressure plate pushing on the thrust bearing I would do this mod,
Take a small fine file and make a channel that runs from the oil hole in the thrust bearing down to the thrust surface face.
This channel only needs to be 1/16" wide and .020" deep to keep that well lubed!
Next might be to get the 90 degree meeting point of the oil return passage from the side of the block and that oil galley rounded off some.
To so this you need a 6" long grinding burr with a ball end small enough to get into the passage and attack that front facing edge.
The only other thing would be a oil temp gauge so you can see if you are in need of a cooler to maintain temps at no more 250.

[Will]

Thanks Steve, good suggestions, especially the thrust bearing mod.

What are your thoughts on the scraper-windage tray question?

Also - restricting feed to the valvetrain?

Yeah, I didn't mention the dizzy gear squirter but that's in the plans for sure. I didn't mention it because it really doesn't improve oiling to the bearings which I guess is my main concern.

Keeping oil in the bottom end for the bearings is my biggest concern but maybe it isn't much of an issue with a 7 qt pan, big remote filter, and accumulator.

[Blued and Painted]

CHECK the 90 degree intersection where oil turns up to the left lifter galley. Found my current factory block was miss drilled/aligned. Restricted. Took some serious drilling from both directions to clean up the intersection. Now the oil sort of snakes through there.

[Steve C.]

Wiil, I don't know which oil pan yopu have, but if it's a Canton keep in mind they rate their pans based on a "total system capacity". Example their popular 15-450 Pontiac Road Race pan is listed at 6 quarts, for that they mean 5 qts in the pan and 1 quart for the oil filter.


.

[Ollie]

Through debur and clean up around the lifter bores to promote drain back.

[steve25]

I can not see how a scraper and tray could hurt in any way and the pan baffle and the accusump in and of itself should keep you out of a ton of trouble!

I would restrict the valve train only under the guidance of someone who has use it in a road race conditions and not short duration drag race, but seeing as your revs will likely never drop below much below 4500 rpm I would say that a 10 % reduction should be plenty safe.
You did not state what heads you are running, but if they are iron there is a ton of left over casting flash that can be ground out of the drainage paths to get the top side of the heads to not over flow the valve seals!

[Will]

More good info, thanks everyone!

I have the Milodon pan, I like it better than the Canton. It takes 7 qts to get the dipstick reading at the full mark once the filter is full in a stock configuration.

I will be running iron heads for now as I'm putting this car together with parts I've accumulated over the years for the most part and I don't have a nice set of aluminum heads laying around. Going to start with a 350 just to get it running (the 350 currently runs) but I have most things I need for a 400 so will build that as soon as possible since the 350 bottom end is plain-jane stock rebuild stuff and I fully expect it to lunch itself at some point.

The only thing I don't have for the 400 is pistons unless I want to run a set of polished and shot-peened stock rods with ARP bolts and TRW forged slugs. I might just go ahead and run that setup. It has light wristpins and the pistons are dished so the total weight of the pistons+pin should be comparable to more expensive options. The rods came out of a '72 400 with 130K on it that led a good life.

[steve25]

If you can fit it into the build forged rods should get used, not just for the safety factor, but like a drag race motor lighter parts make for a faster reving motor and the rev build out off the turns on a road course is where a lot of races are won!
Also the stress load due to weight quadruples with each doubling of RPM, so do not think that even a 15% reduction in rotating mass is not worth the 500 bucks for new rods!

[cnc]

Interested in this post too...

Can someone post a pic of this area

90 degree meeting point of the oil return passage from the side of the block and that oil galley rounded off some.

Thanks Chris

[lust4speed]

I check all the oil passages since some engines have some pretty nasty obstructions in the passages. I usually take a little time with the ball hone on the 90° turn just behind the front plugs that are changed over from expansion to tapped plugs.

I've been running both the scraper and windage tray on the drag engine and will continue to do so.

Don't think I've ever run over a .030" shim on the oil pump pressure relief with the standard ball. If you drop down to the 9/16" ball, then more will be needed. 1/16" = .0625" just to compensate for the difference in diameter. Maybe someone that has changed to the smaller check ball can let us know what they have done. I've purchased some 9/16"balls, but haven't tried one yet.

[Bill Hanlon]

Mick: Your picture is for a pre-64 stud-oiling engine if it makes any difference.

[WARPed]

I tap the factory holes to 1/2" npt eliminating the oil filter adapter housing. Then plug the top hole and put a straight #10 male AN (min) for the oil pump out put. Up at the dist we open up the existing 3/8" hole to 1/2"npt and use another straight #10 male AN fitting. So now you plumb your remote oil filter return to this new location . The original idea came to me when I had no room between the rails of an Altered I built a few years back and have stayed with this layout ever since.

[hectore3]

1. On the track only run non-detergent race oil. Will cut down on the "foaming" of regular street oil.

2. Think about the routing and length of lines for the remote oil filter,cooler and accusump if applicable. All these lines portend badly for oil pressure issues.

3. Think about getting a small stacked plate style cooler for your power steering also.

What do you have in mind for brakes?

[First Bird]

Will-
I was surprised how well just the Canton Road Racing pan worked on my 455. On the last track day with the Bird I asked my instructor to watch the oil pressure (real-time data logging. Ha!) on the turns. Pressure stayed above 35 on rights and lefts. When I was building the engine my machinist said don't bother with the windage tray or scraper with the pan I was using. Seems he was right. No other oiling mods except deburring/radiusing heads and block for drain back. And an extra quart of oil too.

[Bigger is Better]

Hi Will,

Just my thoughts:
- It looks like you have the Moroso Pan already but I would recommend the Canton pan. I have run both and I didnt think the Moroso Pan was much better then my modified stock pan. The Canton pan performed much better than the Moroso as far as oil pressure consistency. That said unless you are running big stick (ie race tires or extreme performance street tires) the Moroso is good and you have it already.
- I run a crank scraper, the idea was that I would try to keep as much oil in the sump as I can. Not sure if it helps much or not.
- I do not run restrictors and I use solid rollers, I dont see to have an issue with piling oil up in the top end of the motor (KRE heads)
- As someone mentioned an oil temp gauge is critical. You will be amazed how much temp you can put into your oil with a few hard pulls.
- I did not run a cooler on my old car, mainly because I was trying to keep away from the complexity, I am going to install one on the new car I am building. I could see oil temps above 240 pretty easily on long track sessions.
- I would recommend synthetic oil for the higher temp performance.
- I would not install an accusump unless you really find you need it, its pretty large and you would need one of the larger units. I dont run one and I do dip my oil pressure to 15psi sometimes but bearings look ok the few times I have refreshed the motor.

A lot of the above and how much oil system you want to build will be dependent on your use, track and how much stick you have. The worst oil pressure situation is while braking hard and turning right, say like at the end of a straight and a long braking zone and then turning right and then getting back on the gas to the next corner, which is pretty common in a road course

Johnny

[Skip Fix]

You could always build some baffles copying the Canton ones in your pan. Years ago I even bought the trap doors to do that from them.

I had the old Milodon road race pan and not near as good a baffling as the Canton. Depending how low the car is you can even go a hair deeper. I had the GTO pan extended forward like the F body so it is deeper and the same length to hold a hair more oil.

[Blued and Painted]

Originally Posted by WARPed

and have stayed with this layout ever since.

Where do you put your pressure sender?

[WARPed]

Originally Posted by Blued and Painted

Where do you put your pressure sender?

I use two, one at the dist connection and the other off the pass front aux port (IA block) to monitor the oil PS at the end of the line.