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Pontiac - Boost Turbo, supercharged, Nitrous, EFI & other Power Adders discussed here. |
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#1
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Super Victor EFI or just Victor EFI
So was looking at the two, and considering which to get, either the victor-based (29575/29565) or the T2-based (50565) EFI intake?
The build is a e-head 461, solid roller 236/242/110/.623, 2600 stall OD + lockup, 373 rear, and will be used in the 1800-6000 RPM range, 3900 lbs, mostly street driven. Since it's dry, plenum velocity isn't much of an issue, correct? Which leads me to believe the super-victor is the correct choice. But my mind is playing tricks on me, so figured I'd get others' take on this. ECU is undecided, but I'm leaning heavily towards the Holley HP/Terminator/Dominator, mainly for cost and features. I'm interested in comments, tips, suggestions, etc, please fire away! .
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#2
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Super Victor EFI would be my vote
With EFI you would need a Throttle Position Sensor and fabbing one for a 4 bbl throttle (using a carb) is not that easy. It can be done though. My vote would be to buy Edelbrock Throttle Body Intake Elbow PN# 38473 (LS application with tall E-manifold) and a 90mm Throttle Body and have fun. Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. Last edited by Tom Vaught; 09-17-2014 at 03:07 PM. |
#3
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That's what I'm thinking, even already have the rails for it! Is there a difference between the 4150 and the 4500 manifolds, performance-wise?
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#4
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Buy my setup in the classified section! lol
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Mike Bright Special thanks to Mark Luhn at Luhn Performance for all the help |
#5
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If you go with the T2 based Victor EFI intake, it's a little more involved to mount the fuel rails. I ended up adding a 1 3/4" Wilson spacer to get the 4150 Holley throttle body up off the fuel rails.
Then, I fabricated some standoffs to locate the rails to the intake. If you don't space the throttle body up the linkage interferes with the fuel rails. If you have a automatic transmission with a TVS cable it is even worse, as the bellcrank extends down further into the rail It ended up packaging nicely, but it was more work than I thought it would be. I expect it would be less trouble with the Super Victor, as they use a more straightforward system to mount the fuel rails. Here you can see the clearance for the bellcrank that the Wilson spacer gives. This spacer was 1.5", when I put on the TVS cable, it still hit so I went to the 1 3/4" spacer. The throttle bracket is from Holley, I ended up not using it as it is too low. This is the final throttle bracket I ended up with. The notch is for the TVS cable, the throttle mounts with another piece not shown.
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1964 Catalina 2+2 4sp, 421 Tri-power 1965 GTO, Roadster Shop chassis, 461, Old Faithful cam, KRE heads 305 CFM, Holley EFI, DIS ignition. 1969 GTO 467, Edelbrock 325 CFM, Terminator EFI 1969 Firebird Convertible Last edited by darbikrash; 09-18-2014 at 11:14 AM. |
#6
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Nice reference photos and info darbikrash, sure others appreciate it too.
Question for you, is it possible to turn the injectors so the connectors are towards the center of the intake? And have the connectors clear the rails? Which throttle body is that? And which ECU did you end up using? .
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#7
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And that's a dominator flange victor?
I was planning on running a 4150/4500 style TB, my understanding is they're more granular at lower RPMs, and are slightly better for drivability. I already have rails and have a lead on a 4150 flange super victor, but if I go 4500 will reach out to you. .
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#8
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Quote:
The injectors are Injector Dynamics ID725 high impedance. They are flow balanced to very tight tolerances, but are pretty large for the projected HP of this engine. They flow 70 lbs/hr at 43 psi of pressure. The strategy for this motor is to run relatively short duty cycles on the injectors, and play with optimizing injector timing relative to the valve events. You can't do that with injectors that are at 90% duty cycle, as they are almost always on. Precision flow balancing the injectors allows the motor to idle nicely with injectors this large The throttle body is a Holley EFI with 4150 flange. The ECU is a Holley HP.
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1964 Catalina 2+2 4sp, 421 Tri-power 1965 GTO, Roadster Shop chassis, 461, Old Faithful cam, KRE heads 305 CFM, Holley EFI, DIS ignition. 1969 GTO 467, Edelbrock 325 CFM, Terminator EFI 1969 Firebird Convertible |
#9
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Your plumbing looks really nice/clean.
How is the front plumbed- Where is the fuel entering your rails at? I'm thinking the regulator is for the return side, yeah?
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John IG: @crawdaddycustoms YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK9...Nc_lk1Q/videos |
#10
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HWYSTR- Have you considered the Prof. Products open plenum EFI manifold? Supposed to be the one ported by Dave at SD, then produced by Ace of PPR, only it has injector bosses on it.
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John IG: @crawdaddycustoms YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK9...Nc_lk1Q/videos |
#11
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Here's a pic...
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John IG: @crawdaddycustoms YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK9...Nc_lk1Q/videos |
#12
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Like this one? I had one fitted like 8 years ago, problem with them is that the port area doesn't have enough meat to handle high port job heads, like anything over 2.10-2.15 or so. Believe Butler 310/315 E-heads are 2.30, think high ports are even larger (2.45?).
They're great for iron heads, and I may even have the one I have 'fixed', not sure what I'll do when the time comes, have to see. For this build though, I'm definitely going to do either the victor or super victor. .
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#13
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Quote:
.
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#14
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Quote:
This is the same process as loading the initial tune file to the ECU. Quote:
The regulator is on the return side. You can just see the single flexible return line under the center of the regulator. Fuel pressure is also coming off the regulator and feeds directly into the ECU. It took me about 20' of hard line tubing to get those two small pieces of fuel line connecting the regulator/fuel rail the same length.
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1964 Catalina 2+2 4sp, 421 Tri-power 1965 GTO, Roadster Shop chassis, 461, Old Faithful cam, KRE heads 305 CFM, Holley EFI, DIS ignition. 1969 GTO 467, Edelbrock 325 CFM, Terminator EFI 1969 Firebird Convertible |
#15
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Cool! Thanks!!
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John IG: @crawdaddycustoms YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK9...Nc_lk1Q/videos |
#16
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I think the Torker II version is designed to use shorter "Pico" injectors to clear the TB linkage. Seems to me using a spacer would be good to add plenum volume anyways.
Really nice plumbing! The Tomahawk is a little low for taller porter E heads without adding weld on the top.
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Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs |
#17
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I originally had a set of 60 mm length LS injectors provided by Injector Dynamics, and they were not going to fit (too long). I sent them back for the 48 mm versions, these I believe are the "shorty" style LS pico injector. They exchanged them at no cost and no hassle.
Here are the dimensions of the "shorty" injectors in the motor now and shown in the pictures. The height of the fuel rail is determined by the length of the injector between the O rings, as they "float" in between the intake bungs and the counterbore in the fuel rail. Even with this style injector a minimum 1.5" carb spacer is needed. Are there shorter (O ring to O ring) injectors available?
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1964 Catalina 2+2 4sp, 421 Tri-power 1965 GTO, Roadster Shop chassis, 461, Old Faithful cam, KRE heads 305 CFM, Holley EFI, DIS ignition. 1969 GTO 467, Edelbrock 325 CFM, Terminator EFI 1969 Firebird Convertible |
#18
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I just know the "pico" style are supposed to be the shorter verison comapred to the plain old injectors used by most folks.
Not sure if connector style vs wiring harness plays into the equation either.
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Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs |
#19
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Quote:
Quote:
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1967 Firebird Convertible Factory 400/4spd Now 462/5spd Fuel Injected http://1967firebird.atwebpages.com/ Last edited by Hammered; 09-22-2014 at 09:39 PM. |
#20
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These are from 2005:
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1967 Firebird Convertible Factory 400/4spd Now 462/5spd Fuel Injected http://1967firebird.atwebpages.com/ |
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