[uneasyrider]

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

We used to drown it out with Marvel Oil. Let it idle, pour in oil through carb till its smoking, then shut her down. The oil will coat the pistons, rings, valves, cylinders.

I've heard of that before. I want to drive it a little though so I don't think I'll do that but if it was going to just set then I might.

[OCMDGTO]

I just put 10-30 in mine today for the winter. Penzoil, nothing exotic. It's a roller cammed 400 that is driven at least once a week, as long as temps are decent(above 30). It has been fine for the last 7 years.

[AdamIsAdam]

So let me ask another question:

When is the best time of year to perform an annual oil change and why? Seems like most change it in the fall. Just curious as to the rationale. Keep moisture out better? Etc

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by 78w72

not to start a debate on starting cars in the winter. but as mentioned above, if you are concerned with rust forming inside the engine you should be aware that starting a cold engine for a short time introduces water & acids from combustion & condensation inside the engine, likely causing more potential for rust than just leaving it sit for the winter months. even running it for 5-10 minutes does not burn off all the water thats created. start your daily driver in the freezing winter months or your stored car & watch how much water comes out the tail pipes. it takes at least 20-30 minutes of actual driving at operating temp to evaporate that water out of the oil.

each person is going to have different opinions on this but fact is starting your car for a few minutes in the winter is pointless & causes more damage than good. if you add a stabalizer to the fuel & do a fresh oil change before putting it away it will be perfectly fine & ready for next season. the internals are coated with a film of oil that will prevent rust in that short of time. it is better to sit there for the 3-6 months of winter than starting it up. unless you can actually drive the car & even then you arent really helping anything except maybe the winter blues that taking the car for a drive will help.

My take exactly, it's pointless to turn engines over or start up occasionally, it does more harm than good. 3-6 months, even 10-18 months, isn't long at all. After market valve springs are way better quality than OE springs, and there should be no worry there either.

The amount of moisture that MIGHT build while it's just sitting there is minimal, and actually, if it's below dew point, there will be no moisture. (winter is a dry season for the most part). Any moisture that might be present will cook off once the engine reaches operating temps, and any that MIGHT have dropped into the oil will cook off once the oil reaches temp. Exhaust systems hold water, to a small degree, and as it's warming up there may be condensation, but once the mufflers heat up, it's gone too.

If the oil that's in there is in the service period, like under 3k miles, and it hasn't been run in extreme conditions, leave it until the spring and change it then.

.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by AdamIsAdam

So let me ask another question:

When is the best time of year to perform an annual oil change and why? Seems like most change it in the fall. Just curious as to the rationale. Keep moisture out better? Etc

IMO, its best to do right before storage in the fall. flushes out all the old oil & removes acids etc that would sit & etch the bearings over the winter. then come spring you dont have any work to do, just start it up & go for the whole season, then repeat again in the fall. unless you only put a few hundred miles on it during the season then its ok to go another year without changing because the oil is so new & hardly any acids etc built up. contrary to what some people think, oil doesnt just go bad because iot sat in the pan for 1 year or more.

hwystar: agree with your points but i do disagree about the "minimal" moisture part. especiallly when its cold moisture will build from condensation as the engine heats up, it does get into the oil from blowby & the gaps in rings etc. "dry season" or not, when i start my daily driver car in the winter it drips lots of water out the tail pipe, if it has that much coming out 15+ feet of pipe, it surely has collected inside the engine too. yes exhaust systems hold water, but just the same internals of the engine create much more than just minimal amounts. & from what ive read, it takes at least 20-30 minutes of running at operating temp to burn that off. if you have an oil temp gauge on your cars you will see that the oil takes far longer to reach full temp than what shows on the water gauge. takes 20-30 minutes of actual driving to burn that off. not just idleing for 5-10-15 minutes... which as you said is the worst thing for an engine, just cold idleing.

regardless of the actual amount of moisture that may happen on cold starts, there is some, probably more than we realize, & it doesnt burn off after a short time idleing when the water gauge gets to operating temp. also the exhaust system has to fully heat up... heck on cold days after 15 minutes of driving to the grocery store & back, the back half of the pipes, including where my cars muffler is, is cool enough to touch... water didnt burn off completely in that area. thats why short cold runs are considered "extreme situations" by car makers & oil companies & qualifies for sooner oil changes. short winter start ups are even worse.

let the car sleep over the winter, best practice to do.

[AdamIsAdam]

At the risk of starting a fire storm, I will report my findings after switching over to Amsoil Zrod 20W-50:

- Oil Pressure is lower than with conventional oil (before I had a dino oil mix of 20w-50 and 10w-40 in there plus zinc additive). Once fully warmed up, I'm only getting 35-40psi at 3,000 RPM where I used to get 50psi. Idle is around 15psi hot. I have a 60 PSI pump. This is on 45-50* temp days.

- I'm getting oil dripping from both my rear main seal (I had a slight leak before, it's a bit more now) plus some drips from the front of the oil pan. Nothing horrible, but clearly this stuff is slippery and finds it's way through little spaces.

Now, this might all be side effects of a good flowing oil. Maybe I'll live with them for superior oiling. Not sure. But wanted to post back.

[grivera]

You're only getting 35-40 psi at 3k? Seems low considering your oil pump. What was it before the change?

[Grand73Am]

He said he used to get 50 psi at 3K.

[AdamIsAdam]

Right, I was at 50 psi before at 3k. MAYBE it was a few psi lower when really hot and thin, like 45-47psi.

[Goatracer1]

Why would you want to live in MN? Don't you have like 9 months of winter? Just kidding I'm sure its a beautiful place.

[Heybuck]

I was waiting at the Dentist today and picked up a Volkswagen magazine (only very slightly better than picking up womans mag - there were lots of them there!!).

In it was an interesting article on how VW Australia had loaned a 1966 Beetle to the Australian Antarctic facility in Antarctica. To test the car under extreme conditions. Obviously as an advertising exercise which must have worked because I can recall those ads. It was there right through the Antarctic winter of 1966, most often in temperatures below -40c.

They made a detailed point on how they had to specially develop an oil with the viscosity of keroscene to be able to start the car.

Reading all that makes me wonder what sort of lubricants are used in say Alaska in winter?

[AdamIsAdam]

Oh, and before I had an STP filter, now a K&N.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by AdamIsAdam

Right, I was at 50 psi before at 3k. MAYBE it was a few psi lower when really hot and thin, like 45-47psi.

Wow- I'm surprised on such a big drop on oil type alone.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Heybuck

In it was an interesting article on how VW Australia had loaned a 1966 Beetle to the Australian Antarctic facility in Antarctica. To test the car under extreme conditions. Obviously as an advertising exercise which must have worked because I can recall those ads. It was there right through the Antarctic winter of 1966, most often in temperatures below -40c.

-40 centigrade is -40 farhenheit.

No need to go to the Antartic for those temps - I've spent time in much colder weather in MN (-64F is my coldest). I remember one 10 day period in January 1980 where the high temp during that stretch was -20...

Of course - the Antartic has the drama of nothing but ice...

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by AdamIsAdam

Oh, and before I had an STP filter, now a K&N.

Filter media in a K&N is finer, and that could have alone caused the drop in psi. Try a PF24 AC as a baseline for pressure.

Where do you take the psi reading from, filter housing or rear of block? Rear of block is usually 5-10 or so psi less than at the filter housing.

Bearing clearances pretty much dictate what your psi will be, as well as the oil weight.

Thinner oil does find a way to leak easier than thicker, and syn adds to that. Sometimes additives in syn can impact (shrink or swell) rubber gaskets, which is what the balancer and oil pan front & rear are. Same with rear main seals. It should settle after a few heat cycles, if not, you may need to change them.

.

[HWYSTR455]

I remember seeing promo pics of a bug on the pole in the snow...

Also, on the K&N filters, in my personal experience, I've noticed you have to change them at least every 3k miles, because they filter so good, they tend to clog, and you will see a drop in psi.

It's possible the thinner oil washed down the inside of the engine and simulated that first 3k miles sooner, but that's just a stab in the dark.

.

[madokie]

i run 5-20 wal mart @ 2.74 a quart year round in my 3 vehicles,,40 psi @ 3k is low??? sure you can put thicker oil in for summer but for what?? more psi on the oil gauge??? it takes HP to spin an oil pump.."you only need 10 psi per 1000 rpm" smokey yunick.. soon as WM starts selling 0-20 cheap,i'll be using that too !!!

[AdamIsAdam]

Originally Posted by AdamIsAdam

At the risk of starting a fire storm, I will report my findings after switching over to Amsoil Zrod 20W-50:

- Oil Pressure is lower than with conventional oil (before I had a dino oil mix of 20w-50 and 10w-40 in there plus zinc additive). Once fully warmed up, I'm only getting 35-40psi at 3,000 RPM where I used to get 50psi. Idle is around 15psi hot. I have a 60 PSI pump. This is on 45-50* temp days.

- I'm getting oil dripping from both my rear main seal (I had a slight leak before, it's a bit more now) plus some drips from the front of the oil pan. Nothing horrible, but clearly this stuff is slippery and finds it's way through little spaces.

Now, this might all be side effects of a good flowing oil. Maybe I'll live with them for superior oiling. Not sure. But wanted to post back.

Update on new oil characteristics of Amsoil Zrod 20w-50 as described above.
Before I started the car for the first time in two months, I noticed the dipstick wasn't fully seated, so i pushed it back down the last inch or two and didn't think anything about it. Then after my drive i noticed it was back up the same 1-2"! Why?

Note: I did wind the motor out a few times as I always do. I didn't have this issue on dyno oil of same weight. And remember, I had higher PSI readings on the dyno oil.

What's going on?

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by AdamIsAdam

Update on new oil characteristics of Amsoil Zrod 20w-50 as described above.
Before I started the car for the first time in two months, I noticed the dipstick wasn't fully seated, so i pushed it back down the last inch or two and didn't think anything about it. Then after my drive i noticed it was back up the same 1-2"! Why?

Note: I did wind the motor out a few times as I always do. I didn't have this issue on dyno oil of same weight. And remember, I had higher PSI readings on the dyno oil.

What's going on?

The reason for the dipstick rising up is usually due to excessive crankcase pressure and it pushes the stick up as the pressure rises internally in the engine. Ring seal when you run the RPMs up can cause this as well as a faulty PCV system not allowing enough pressure back to the intake manifold.

When you open the throttle all the way the manifold vacuum decreases, and there is very little draw on the PCV system until the throttle plates are partially closed again causing a restriction and restoring manifold vacuum. By this time the dipstick is unseated and the pressure has found the path of least resistance to equalize the crankcase pressure to atmospheric pressure.

I have had Pontiacs when using synthetic oil that sealed the rings better than regular oil that actually caused detonation in a marginal situation, and actually cracked the top ring, causing blow by and excessive crankcase pressure. Unless you have an engine that is really close to maximum compression and detonation prone this probably isn't your problem. It may just be the synthetic isn't allowing as good of a ring seal as your regular oil did,or the engine is becoming tired and in need of a refresh.

Synthetic oil in an engine that is fresh, will definitely slow the ring seating process compared to regular oils. I have no idea what state your engine is in as far as fresh rings and being overhauled recently, another variable.

A leakdown test would be a good indicator of the condition of the condition of the engine valves and ring seal. A less scientific test is to disconnect the PCV system and remove the oil fill cap and observe the amount of blowby gases coming from the oil fill opening as you rev the engine, not as accurate, but if the amount of blowby is excessive it is at least and indicator of ring seal failing.

The oil pressure may just be to thinner oil when hot causing lower pressure. You don't state how much lower the pressure is. As long as you have 10 lbs. for every 1000 RPM you should be sufficient, I.E. 30 lbs at 3000 RPMs. If your not meeting that criteria, it may be time to do some investigating. Or if you've had a large drop in oil pressure, say 20 lbs. I'd be running some tests, maybe pulling the engine to look for problems.

These are things I've run into before, I'm sure others will add more to this.

[TedRamAirII]

Originally Posted by AdamIsAdam

Update on new oil characteristics of Amsoil Zrod 20w-50 as described above.
Before I started the car for the first time in two months, I noticed the dipstick wasn't fully seated, so i pushed it back down the last inch or two and didn't think anything about it. Then after my drive i noticed it was back up the same 1-2"! Why?

Note: I did wind the motor out a few times as I always do. I didn't have this issue on dyno oil of same weight. And remember, I had higher PSI readings on the dyno oil.

What's going on?

Higher oil pressure is only showing you are trying to pump molasses. 20w50 is just way to thick to pump, especially in colder weather. 10w30 should be the oil of choice. If you dont have good oil pressure with 10w30, your engine is tired, ring seal isnt up to par and the pcv system cant keep up. IMO : )