[bluebird455]

"This engine is listed as a Super Duty Engine in the Classic Industries catalog."

Once I saw that comment , I knew I had to post the listing. How about acquiring all correct info before posting, there's no excuse nowadays.

[71GP76TA]

Dash pad looks funny.. Maybe a dash cap????

[2manyT/A'S]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331379439428...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[Wareagle]

Cool video from Sweden - warmup of a 455HO T/A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWJGTtjwlF4

[SD455DJ]

Originally Posted by RicksGTO

the PHS he posted shows color PP (Nordic Silver lower/upper), trim code 11 so assuming 11 is for 211 interior code (Blue). Also shows custom trim as an option which means deluxe interior.

Didn't the handling package in '71 come with Rally II's included unless Honeycombs were order?

RicksGTO,

In '71, the Formula Handling Package came with 15x7 Honeycombs only, not steelies or Rally II's, hence the reason it was a $205.37 option. I thought the 15x7 Honeys on the Formula I bought was a separate option from the Handling Package, but aren't listed as a separate option on the PHS and is described as being included on the '71 option form along with F60x15 RWL tires.

Dennis

[68bird400HO]

Originally Posted by SD455DJ

RicksGTO,

In '71, the Formula Handling Package came with 15x7 Honeycombs only, not steelies or Rally II's, hence the reason it was a $205.37 option. I thought the 15x7 Honeys on the Formula I bought was a separate option from the Handling Package, but aren't listed as a separate option on the PHS and is described as being included on the '71 option form along with F60x15 RWL tires.

Dennis

I think the handling package came with 15x7 rally's or honeys (once they became available later in production year) as a no cost choice. Same with the TA in 71.

[SD455DJ]

Originally Posted by 68bird400HO

I think the handling package came with 15x7 rally's or honeys (once they became available later in production year) as a no cost choice. Same with the TA in 71.

That's what I thought too. I'll post my PHS and the '71 & '72 Firebird Order Forms tomorrow for you to take a look at. The '72 Order Form doesn't list wheel type (like the '71 Order Form) surmising that the 15x7 Steelies with dog dishes were standard with Rally II's and Honeycombs as extra cost options separate from the Handling Package. I believe the parts books support this. I don't believe you could get 15x7 steel wheels with dog dish hubcaps on a '71 Formula, 14x7 yes.

The Trans Am did offer the buyer a choice of wheels at no charge, but not on the Formulas on down. I thought the Honeycombs were more expensive than the Rally II's of the same size, but I could be wrong. I'm still learnin' this stuff and my memory could be failing me. If my assertions are in error, I'm open for correction.

Thanks, Dennis

[SD455DJ]

Here are the '71 and '72 Firebird Order forms. The '71 lists the Honeycombs as part of the Handling Package, while the '72 omits them. Also, the '71 has an 'H' in the PO5Honeycomb box indicating that it is part of the handling package.

Dennis

[Jim Rotella]

Early in the '71 model year, 15" Honeycombs were not available and were substituted with the 15x7 Rally II's on all Pontiacs. In January, 1971, the 15" Honeycombs became available. At that point, the Y99 package on Formulas came with your choice of 15" Rally II or 15" Honeycomb wheels. When ordering this option, the dealer had to specify which wheel the customer wanted (code 474 or code
478). There was a difference of $36.86 for the Honeycombs over Rally II's when ordering the Y99 option.

[SD455DJ]

Thanks Jim for the clarification, I stand corrected. That is something I didn't know about. I'm surprised they didn't offer the 15x7 steel wheels like in '72 & '73. Dan and I were wondering if the 15x7 Honeycombs were eventually available on the '71 GTO's since you could order 15" Rally II's throughout the model year.

Thanks, Dennis

[Jim Rotella]

Dennis, the 15" Honeycomb Wheel availabilty in 1971 was very confusing. The main problem was the delay of those wheels early in the model year. They were planned as the standard wheels on the '71 Trans Am as most of the early sales literature shows. But their delay forced Pontiac to make the 15" Rally II's the standard wheel once again. Sometime in December of 1970, the 15" Honeycombs were finally released and made available on the Trans Am, Formula, and most A Body cars, including the GTO.

[johnta1]

Sales Manual Revisions

[SD455DJ]

Jim & John,

Great information and good to finally know for sure what the factory did. Thanks John for posting the sales manual revisions. That puts the issue to bed.

Dennis

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Sales Manual Revisions

Besides the Honeycomb wheel delivery issues, perhaps the 1972 UAW strike raised havoc with vendor pipelines, documentation such as available options, revisions, etc. perhaps another reason the order sheets for '71 & '72 variations, yes?

[Judge273]

If strike related, probably the one that started in Sept 70 to Dec was the reason for 71 Production delays.

[Alvin]

Wow! A lot more strike disruptions in that general time frame than I remembered.

Re my OP GM strike - "39,000 cars lost in halted production" - more details of 1972 Norwood 4 month shut down here:

NBC Evening News for
Sunday, Aug 27, 1972

Summary:
(Studio) General Motors Corporation has good year Car sales way up. Strike at Chevrolet plant in Cincinnati suburb of Norwood, Ohio, prevents profits from being even higher. UAW (United Automobile, Aerospace and Agricultural Implement Workers of America) claims 700 workers laid off last spring. Company says only 400 lost jobs when General Motors Corporation merged Fisher Body with Chevrolet.
REPORTER: Edwin Newman

(Norwood, Ohio) Norwood General Motors Corporation plant has been idle since April 8 when 4000 employees went on strike. Camaros, Firebirds, and Novas built at this facility. 39,000 cars lost in halted production. Norwood loses $15,000 a week in taxes on payroll due to strike. Mayor Joseph Shay says money for city services running low. [Grocer John CANAVA - buys less mdse., as it moves more slowly during strike.] [Kenneth KINCAID - gets by on $40 a week from union strike fund, uses food stamps, determined to stay on strike.] [Margaret KINCAID - says they've had to cut back.] Strike has cost workers $ 2 million in unpd. salaries. City has lost $25,000 in taxes. General Motors Corporation has lost $150 million in car sales. No sign of settlement.
REPORTER: Lou Davis

http://tvnews.vanderbilt.edu/program.pl?ID=465829

[kaptinkafeen]

Although not entirely specific to the Norwood plant or the firebirds...if anyone is interested in reading about the labour crisis, UAW, and the labour strikes of the early '70's (71-72) at GM facilities, I came across this article while doing some research for some school related mumbo-jumbo ...
http://libcom.org/library/lordstown-struggle-ken-weller

Specific info for late '71 and then 1972 starts at about page 11/18. Specific Norwood details, p.#14.
Interesting stuff.
-Andrew

[2manyT/A'S]

Originally Posted by SD455DJ

Thanks Jim for the clarification, I stand corrected. That is something I didn't know about. I'm surprised they didn't offer the 15x7 steel wheels like in '72 & '73. Dan and I were wondering if the 15x7 Honeycombs were eventually available on the '71 GTO's since you could order 15" Rally II's throughout the model year.

Thanks, Dennis

Good Day.....
A bit off topic.......but what is your "dial in" on the new HO?

[SD455DJ]

2manyT/A's, Hopefully by the end of January and then the tear-down begins...

Dennis

[giles]

Originally Posted by Jim Rotella

Early in the '71 model year, 15" Honeycombs were not available and were substituted with the 15x7 Rally II's on all Pontiacs. In January, 1971, the 15" Honeycombs became available. At that point, the Y99 package on Formulas came with your choice of 15" Rally II or 15" Honeycomb wheels. When ordering this option, the dealer had to specify which wheel the customer wanted (code 474 or code
478). There was a difference of $36.86 for the Honeycombs over Rally II's when ordering the Y99 option.

My '71 TA, built the first week of April '71 was invoiced for $36.86 for "478 Honeycomb wheel" option.