[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Will

Why does every performance oriented vehicle have to be a caricature of some car from 50 years ago?

IMO - they don't.

But to some grumpy old men, evidently they do...

[Jim Doran]

IMO this car is a great daily driver and must be alot more fun than the pickups, Hyundai's, Ford's, Nissans, Toyota's, etc etc that most of us drive. Easy to talk down this car, but compare it to dull transportation most of us live with daily. As for bang for the buck, that is something each and every individual will have to answer.

Now, if your driving a hellcat as your daily, then +1 to you !

[The Champ]

In the current Motor Trend, they have an article on the HellCat Charger. They have a sidebar that comments on the SS - basically saying that the SS is more fun to drive.

Give me the SS...

[72projectbird]

Man some of you are harsh on the poor ol' car!

Its nice to see a big V8 rwd car being made again! Im just glad that Chevy didn't name in the Chevelle and ruin the name.

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by 72projectbird

Its nice to see a big V8 rwd car being made again! Im just glad that Chevy didn't name in the Chevelle and ruin the name.

I couldnt agree more there!

The new Chargers are really nice cars. I had one as a rental. But man I wish it werent called a Charger. Too many doors.

[keith k]

I like it, and would take it (with 6-speed manual) over any Charger, including the Hellcat, in a nanosecond.

The styling is a bit low key, but tasteful. A bit of anonymity is not a bad thing when driving a fast car.

[Sirrotica]

Why does every performance oriented vehicle have to be a caricature of some car from 50 years ago?

That's a great question!!!!!

Everyone thought the retro mustang was a great idea until it came time to update it. Ford had no where to go with it and ended up with the 2015 version of a 69 car. Aesthetically (to me) it doesn't look nearly as good as the 2005 did. Sales of the Mustang have dropped off steadily since 2005.

Crapmaro, proves chevy fans will buy anything with a bowtie on it, or maybe not as the SS isn't selling, In my eyes it's a fail............

Chevy felt no need to retro style their flagship performance car (corvette). So much for the need of old looking, new performance cars. The corvette seems to need no retro shot in the arm to sell well.

Challenger, compared to the originals it was intended to look like, it's 4300# overweight and over sized. Seeing the original next to the retro version shows how large the retro version is. Same basically underneath as the charger 4 door "muscle car"...................

Chrysler will have the same problem in the near future updating a retro car. Where do you go with it? When you mess with the headlights, taillights, and grille trying to keep the same body lines it ends up looking pretty hideous. Ford has already tried that plan with the mustang. In the long run a retro car ends up painting the manufacturer into a corner, with no graceful exit.

The chevy SS (G8 wannabe) has had really poor sales since it's introduction. Approximately 2500 units in 2014. The G8 sold over 4 times as many cars, as did the GTOs 2004-2006. I never want to hear that the (limited production) GTO/G8 was a sales failure after the chevy SS that was much better promoted than the GTO/G8 was, fell far short of both the GTOs and G8 sales. All 3 limited production cars built by Holden division of GM. When all is said and done the chevy SS in 3 years won't outsell one year of GTO/G8 sales.

The GTO was to gain foot traffic into showrooms and celebrate the 40th GTO anniversary, and it did that. Not everyone looking for a car is going to buy a GTO. They can afford to look at one, and then buy something more affordable/practical from Pontiac dealers. The SS will probably serve the same purpose, to gain showroom traffic and down sell a lesser priced car.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by 72projectbird

Man some of you are harsh on the poor ol' car!

Its nice to see a big V8 rwd car being made again! Im just glad that Chevy didn't name in the Chevelle and ruin the name.

I believe chevy already did that, does Malibu ring a bell? Another name for the chevelle...................

Just for grins, Chevy was really POed that Pontiac got a RWD 4 passenger performance car in 2004 and took a GTO and did an engineering exercise of a chevelle on the GTO/Monaro car. Because Holden could only produce so many units for the US market and Pontiac had already spoken for those cars chevy was never going to get any RWD chevelle/malibu RWD performance cars. It's not because chevy didn't want the GTO/ Monaro bodystyle, it's just that there was no way Holden could produce that many cars for the US market. I believe it was Car Craft or Hot Rod that had an article showing the chevy version of the chevelle on a Monaro/GTO RWD platform. It was retail red with black skunk stripes.





Now with Pontiac gone chevy can have their Holden built platform, only thing is the packaged it so poorly and priced it so high, no one seems to want one except the police departments. There was talk of the SS being offered to police departments as cruisers, not sure what happened to that proposal.

The down under police used the GTO/Holden cars as cruisers:

[Dick Boneske]

Reading the posts on the SS makes it clear that most of you don't like any of the attempts by GM, Ford, or Chrysler to build performance cars. Below is what I gathered from the comments. It also tells me you haven't driven one of these cars.

*GM's 2004-2006 GTO's were not retro enough. The SS is not a Pontiac and costs too much.

*Ford's 2015 Mustang looks too much like a '69, costs too much.

*Chrysler's Challenger, Charger, & Hellcat weigh too much--4300 lb., and cost too much.

Having owned a 2000 Bonneville SSEi, a 2004 GTO, a 2007 Grand Prix GXP, and now a Chevrolet SS, I can tell you GM is doing very well in the performance sedan area!

I'll never get over the fact that Pontiac no longer exists, but face the reality that there are much better performance cars now than when our beloved Firebirds, GTO's, Grand Prix's, and others were new. I'm reminded of that whenever I drive my '64 GTO or my wife's.

Prices seem high when looking at dollars on the window sticker, but adjusted for inflation, not really priced higher. I earned $9,500/yr. in 1970, not a bad salary for then. I earned about $74k/yr. in 2004 when I retired. In both 1970 and 2004, a decent sedan cost about half my yearly salary (1970 Grand Prix $4900, 2004 GTO $32,000). You get features on new cars today that we never even dreamt about in the '60's and '70's.

We nearly bought a '09 G8, but passed on it because it had no heads-up display, driver memory, heated seats, etc. Our 2000 Bonneville did have all these toys and my wife had gotten used to them and wanted them on our new car. We compromised and bought a '09 Buick Enclave--a great crossover, but definitely not a performance sedan.

In some ways, the SS reminds us of the G8 we almost bought, but it has much better tires for performance, huge Brembo brakes, a high performance automatic transmission, 21 mpg highway, 12 second quarter mile times out of the showroom, and all the bells & whistles we've become accustomed to--heads-up display, heated seats, Bluetooth, Navigation, driver memory seat and mirror settings, CD/FM/XM, 10-way power seats, collision avoidance, automatic 2-way a/c, rear camera, Stabilitrak, rain-sensing wipers, etc. It will also park itself if you choose to use that option.

I don't understand all the negativity toward the SS. If you don't like the bells & whistles along with 12 second quarter miles, buy a Plain-Jane sedan for $18K.

[RocktimusPryme]

I didn't go back and read my first post but I believe I said something along the lines of being happy about Gm building v8 rwd cars.

I stand by my position of the manufacturers pricing themselves out of the market. I don't have a problem with that too tier model costing that much. But it seems in almost every platform if you want the fun engine you have every other expensive option forced on you as well.

As I said earlier I would rather GM have made the Z28 a base model camaro but the with LS3 drive train for 26-30k (several thousand more than the base v6) than making it a 70k super car. Same with the SS. Okay the one with heated leather,backup camera and GPS is 45? Why can't I get one without all that for 31?

It's not like even base models are Spartan these days. Your still going to get ac, power windows, and a decent radio even in fleet model rentals impalas. Now just shove an ls3 into it for me at a reasonable cost. I know you can seek a camaro for low 20's because I saw them for sale when I bought my regal. I doubt the ls3 and it's transmission are all that much more expensive than the 3.6.

[Dick Boneske]

RocktimusPryme,

I agree it would be nice to buy a Camaro, Mustang, Corvette, SS, etc. with bare bones options and a performance drive train. No one offers that any more. The V6 Camaro and Mustang outperforms the '60's V8 versions at relatively low cost, but add a V8 and you get a whole list of what many performance buffs don't want.

In my case, since my wife will be driving the SS more than I, the options were a bonus. I get a performance car, my wife gets the options. Which, as I said, is why we didn't buy a G8 in '09. The V8 G8 we drove, by the way, had no where near the performance--acceleration, cornering, braking--that the SS has. But, it was a Pontiac, and if Pontiac still made cars, the G8 would be my choice over the SS, as it would have options that I needed in my situation.

I only wish we were in California where you are so I wouldn't have to wait 'til April to enjoy the SS!!

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by Dick Boneske

Reading the posts on the SS makes it clear that most of you don't like any of the attempts by GM, Ford, or Chrysler to build performance cars.

Originally Posted by Dick Boneske

I don't understand all the negativity toward the SS. If you don't like the bells & whistles along with 12 second quarter miles, buy a Plain-Jane sedan for $18K.

I personally like the attempts, I just wish that they wouldn't resurrect old names just to lure the car buying public using nostalgia. I loved the G8 especially since it wasn't on an older nameplate, and would own one today if my credit hadn't taken a nosedive when they came out due to losing my job.

As far as the SS, it may be fast and it may have a 6 speed, but let's be honest with ourselves here. $45-50k for a car is an awful lot of money, even if you're making good coin these days (and let's not kid ourselves again, not everyone is). We're almost into Corvette and Cadillac territory there and even the modern Lincolns with quite decent performance start cheaper than that. A nicely equipped 4 door sedan that has hefty power (albeit in a 6 cylinder) is less than that. So what you're getting is an extra $15-20k price just to have a v8 sedan with a manual transmission. Add in the typical GM dealer BS that I've dealt with numerous times it's no wonder no one wants to buy it. And the bells and whistles are nice, but having the option to not buy them all and shave $10k off the car would appeal to quite a few more people.

Selling the amount they've sold is... kind of sad. But there's definitely a reason and it's not because us old farts (and old at heart) who are the Pontiac faithful aren't buying!

My main gripe is I won't own anything with a bowtie on it regardless of how nice or powerful it is. Buick, Pontiac, or even Cadillac? Sure I'd consider it ;-)

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by Dick Boneske

RocktimusPryme,

I agree it would be nice to buy a Camaro, Mustang, Corvette, SS, etc. with bare bones options and a performance drive train. No one offers that any more. The V6 Camaro and Mustang outperforms the '60's V8 versions at relatively low cost, but add a V8 and you get a whole list of what many performance buffs don't want.

In my case, since my wife will be driving the SS more than I, the options were a bonus. I get a performance car, my wife gets the options. Which, as I said, is why we didn't buy a G8 in '09. The V8 G8 we drove, by the way, had no where near the performance--acceleration, cornering, braking--that the SS has. But, it was a Pontiac, and if Pontiac still made cars, the G8 would be my choice over the SS, as it would have options that I needed in my situation.

I only wish we were in California where you are so I wouldn't have to wait 'til April to enjoy the SS!!

I might trade you, I hate the desert. Being able to play golf all year round is nice I admit. Im a contract aircraft mechanic for the military. So I end up spending months in the desert on deployment. It would be nice not to have to come home to one. At least I get shot at less here.

And dont get me wrong. Im not bashing perks. I drive a nice newish buick with heated leather, and XM radio. And the turbo gives it enough to be fun. I have a love hate with the 6 speed manual. But when I was a buyer I had a budget of 20-26ish. If I found something I really wanted I could stretch it to 30. Your right GM really outdid itself with the 3.6 in the base camaros. Makes more power than an LS1. But I just couldnt talk myself into a V6 fbody (outside of an 89 TTA). I looked to try to get myself into a V8 from all the mfgs. RT Challenger got the closest I think. I saw a couple SS Camaros for like 33-34 if they were last years models that hadnt been sold. While similar situation base models I think were offered at 19,900.

All Im saying is I completely dont understand the sales strategy of removing options from the buyer. All of us being classic car enthusiasts we see all our pontiacs with a bevy of options on each car pulled out of the garage. It almost seems no car is exactly the same. Thats an exageration but it seems that way. Pretty much every 2014 Camaro SS is the same with the exception of colors, and they probably offer a wheel package. I dont get it.

[judgethis]

Congrates on he new car Dick. I saw the car about a month or two ago when I went to the Chevy dealer to get some parts. I walked buy it going in and it really caught my eye. I took a closer look on the way out and saw it was a V8 RWD. I thought sweet. Definitly a car I would buy if I could.
You are correct that some people would have a different reaction if they drove it. I remember when I was a Technician in a Pontiac dealer and the new GTO's came out. People where on the fence with the styling but once they drove it they loved it. I use to love driving the GTO's.
I was a Tech from the early 90"s thru the mid 2000's and to watch the technology advance was really cool. I love old cars just as much as anybody else but for a daily drive i"ll take a new car.

[Will]

The problem with the SS is that not many folks with $45K to spend on a performance sedan want a Chevy. They'll buy an Infiniti, Lexus, or BMW first. Honestly can't blame them after the shenanigans GM has pulled in the last 20 years.

I like the idea of the SS - a badass family car now available with a manual trans. The styling isn't bad IMO. It's not a real attention grabber and that's fine with me, at least it isn't hideous. I'm just not in any position to buy a $45K car.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Ben M.

As far as the SS, it may be fast and it may have a 6 speed, but let's be honest with ourselves here. $45-50k for a car is an awful lot of money, even if you're making good coin these days (and let's not kid ourselves again, not everyone is). We're almost into Corvette and Cadillac territory there....

I think your comparisons to the Vette and Cadillac are a little strange.

A base SS is $46,000.

The base Corvette is $54,000, but only carries 2 people and virtually no luggage. Not even near the same target market.

The base Cadillac CTS is comparably priced at $46,000 - but that has a 2.0 L 4 cylinder with a lot less interior room and cargo space. Make that a CTSV and the base price jumps to $65,000 - not anywhere near the price of an SS.

Your comparisons are apples and oranges.

$46,000 for a full size V8 RWD performance sedam is a bargain in today's market.

I agree not everyone is "making good coin", but people are still buying new PU's or SUV's that sticker for more than the SS in today's economic times.

[Sirrotica]

I remember when I was a Technician in a Pontiac dealer and the new GTO's came out. People where on the fence with the styling but once they drove it they loved it. I use to love driving the GTO's.

I had no intention on buying a GTO but in late 2005 I stopped at the local Pontiac dealer to look at the new Solstice and found myself drawn to a Yellowjacket 2005 A4. Drove it and still wasn't thinking about buying one. I was driving a 97 T/A at the time.

Late February rolls around and my finances had changed for the better, and the sales manager calls me and offers me the car for $6400 off sticker. The car was on the floor plan for 90 days and was about to take a big percentage jump in dealer finance charges.

I went in and drove it again and deliberated about it for about 3 hours, and finally bought mine. This was the first new car I had ever bought. Nine years later It now has just under 104,000 miles on it, and other than the front suspension problems, which Pontiac stood behind for 60,000 miles (double the warranty mileage) I've had no complaints about it. It's my good weather D/D and it still puts a smile on my face every time I drive it.

People ask me if I've done a tune, or headers on it, but since I don't race it there is really no need to add to the plenty adequate 400 HP on tap. Maybe at 62 I feel the car has all I need just the way it was built. This year it will get Energy Suspension bushings master kit installed because the original front end bushings have been replaced twice under warranty, and they are just to soft and compliant and wear our too quickly. Since I used it to haul my 6X10 enclosed trailer for selling T shirts I also installed air bags in the rear springs for the extra tongue weight, it also helps wheel hop too.

Other than tires, battery, front brakes, a carrier bearing support, it's pretty much original and has been a good car. Interior is starting to show wear and the stitching where the sun hits it is starting to split on the tops of the seats. Fairly common on the GTO interiors. Some of the clear coat is getting thin and I may have the car painted, or at least touched up this year.

Since GM killed Pontiac I will never purchase a new car, but am on the lookout for a used low mile G8 for my stable in the future.

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by The Champ

I think your comparisons to the Vette and Cadillac are a little strange.

The point comes down to when you start getting up to that level of price, the field of cars people are open to considering changes as well. As Will points out, Infiniti, BMW, & Lexus cars as well are at that price level and have more of a reputation among buyers compared to a Chevy.

What it comes down to is do you want to spend $10-15k extra on a 4 door sedan solely for the v8 engine and manual transmission availability? And from Chevy... Some may see it as a bargain but based on sales I'd say the number who agree is quite small.

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

I believe chevy already did that, does Malibu ring a bell? Another name for the chevelle...................

The only good Malibu's were the 2nd gens.

And if we want to talk other "names" for cars then Pontiac really screwed the GTO name up.

The Police departments use the Chevy Caprice, which uses the same Zeta platform as the SS.

[Dick Boneske]

For $45K, can you tell me which BMW, Infiniti, Lexus offers performance equivalent to the Chevrolet SS? Also, a list of American sedans that offer equivalent performance to the SS at $45K?

To me, the "bells & whistles" are simply an added bonus.