[1969 Ram Air]

That's a great list of options. Fantastic car!

[The Boss]

Fremont built HO & invoiced as GMAC company car - interesting.

Didn't go to an owner until January of 1972.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Originally Posted by Ram4king

It's all good to disagree Chris but I'll stand by my gut. And there's a 10grand swing from auto to a M22 car. Lloyds was a WW5 car too. And auctions are bringing more but after you pay the juice your back closer to reality. And back to my number which I say is 35-40.

As for 455 Pontiac power, me thinks the desirability, value depends on who build the TH400.
Then again the M21HD in those cars is quite tough for stock power.

Not everybody wants to (or can) work the clutch in their older age.

[cuz68]

That is a very nice car, You dont see many like that now days.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by My72455

I took pictures of the sticker showing the WW5 option package and also the protect-o-plate.

To get the air conditioning working it would cost about $1500-2000. Do you think it would be a good idea to do this? Would it make a difference in the selling price?

Great Car and thanks a lot for sharing it with us !
Could you please share any other paper work you have for the car with us ?

In case anyone is interested, it sold with 3008 miles through Prestige Pontiac in Van Nuys California (24-264).

The piece poking up behind the P-o-P with 60-662 at the top might be interesting to see more of it - or is it just the top edge of the dealer shipping record document ?

Do you happen to have the PHS Dealer Invoice document ?
It should be a "2 invoice car". But they don't always have both documents.

If the A/C components were still all mounted in place, just non-functional, it wouldn't be as much of an issue. As it sits now, its going to take more than a 2k hit on selling price. More like 3-5k hit. But it will sell one way or another for some figure.
Selling a car this time of year with A/C that works excellent is a huge plus.

[Lloyd-TX]

Originally Posted by Ram4king

It's all good to disagree Chris but I'll stand by my gut. And there's a 10grand swing from auto to a M22 car. Lloyds was a WW5 car too. And auctions are bringing more but after you pay the juice your back closer to reality. And back to my number which I say is 35-40.

Don, my Sundance HO M22 car was actually NOT WW5-optioned. REAL close, but not quite. It was special ordered by Skip Barooby in MD with EVERY single WW5 option except the Formula Steering wheel and in-dash tach. Invoice (pre-PHS) is attached.

Skip knew that he wanted to add the factory hood tach (and Judge wing) so he ordered it with the factory gauge package and in-dash clock. Before taking delivery he had the selling dealership add the hood tach and wing. The Custom Cushion steering wheel was simply customer preference, I suppose.

[Lloyd-TX]

By the way, that's a VERY nicely equipped Sundance WW5 there.

Good luck with the sale!

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by The Boss

Me too! A Sundance HO - A or F is a dream car for me.

Didn't you already own a 72 WW5 Sundance Automatic ...with MEMO Invoice ?
*edit- oh yeh and a Red WW5 4spd
GLUTTON !

Fremont built HO & invoiced as GMAC company car - interesting.

I have about 12 or so 72 WW5 GTO cars/documents on file.
This is the only example from Fremont so far. All others are PMD or Atlanta.
3 are Sundance now, and all 3 Sundancers have a little extra step in their history.

Steve Barcaks former WW5 Sundance would be a 4th one, but don't think I have any documentation for it.

It is actually printed as GMAD .
I don't know what/who GMAD is/was ... but 60-662 is more like a fleet or supplier or vendor account code. Like the AC Spark Plug 72 WW5 Sundance was 60-206.
Just a curious point if whether GMAC Finance also went under GMAD - or if GMAD is something else entirely.

Questions for some of you well versed WW5 enthusiasts -

1. Did you notice this car is billed separately for 455HO and WW5 - when the 455HO was part of the WW5 package. Have not seen this before.
Maybe they were making up for Pat Brown's free 455HO car. lol

2. I thought I was told that the WW5 option price reveals whether the car was Automatic or 4speed. But I have various examples that are messing me up.

For examples -
$ 982.00 / 987.00 option price

1006.86 / 1012.13 option price

What do these price levels represent again ?
I need a refresher course on these cars.

This Fremont example doesn't list 15" RWL Tires in WW5 package.
Is that a part of the 987 vs. 1012 variation ?

So is $982 4spd and $987 Auto ?
1006 4spd with RWL , 1012 Auto with RWL ?

Thanks guys

[PB]

Originally Posted by My72455

I took pictures of the sticker showing the WW5 option package and also the protect-o-plate.

To get the air conditioning working it would cost about $1500-2000. Do you think it would be a good idea to do this? Would it make a difference in the selling price?

Neat..thanks for sharing the paperwork. My HO lemans built in Fremont is around 1000 units after your car. My car was shipped on 1/7/72.

Personally, I would think if you spent the time and money to get the A/C working, you'd come out ahead. I would try and track down the right carb too if you were going to do this. You should be able to finance the carb with the sale of the one currently on the car. Numbers matching all around is difficult to come by these days and adds value IMO. You're almost there...

If you are going to leave the same carb on, I wouldn't worry too much about the AC. That stuff is easily attained. You have the hardest part already installed!

[400 4spd.]

I agree with Boss on value, and feel the investment to restore the a/c will certainly pay off.
I'm wrapping up an LS5 454 Chevy project right now that was missing critical a/c and cruise pieces, and the owner has wisely decided to correct those items now along with some other things. Even though I felt the odds were strongly against me, within a few weeks I found what I needed in Canada. My point is to look for it, it's out there somewhere.
Very nice car that you have there.

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Didn't you already own a 72 WW5 Sundance Automatic ...with MEMO Invoice ?
*edit- oh yeh and a Red WW5 4spd
GLUTTON !

Guilty as charged - and it turned out really nice.....after I sold it.



I wouldn't mind owning this car, even though it's just a LeMans, and an automatic one at that!

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Have 15 , 1972 GTO WW5 cars documented.

4 - 4 speeds ( 2 with A/C )

11 - Auto ( 7 with A/C ) ( 4 of the 11 are Bench Seat with Column Shift )

But I think one car is mis-labeled.
Sumpn aint right.


$ 982
Red 4spd 9-22-72 = VIN P142428 = Inv 740155 Para, NJ
Orange 4spd 6-12-72 = VIN P2030xx = Inv 612341 Corv, OR

$ 987
Gold Auto 3-14-72 = VIN A171774 = Inv 480131 Atlanta, GA
Gold Auto Bench ?-?-? = VIN P168515 = Inv ? Bell, WA
Green Auto Bench 1-5-72 = VIN A143220 = Inv 315943 Clark, TN
Yellow Auto 6-6-72 = VIN A210424 = Inv 668110 Austin, TX
Red Auto ?-?-? = VIN A176779 = Inv 528623 Unknown, USA
Orange Auto ?-?-? = VIN Z104729 = Inv ? Van Nuys, CA
Unkown Auto 4-2x-72 = VIN ? = Inv ? (very dark PHS along top) Smyrna,??

$ 1006
Red 4spd 11-19-71 = VIN A130269 = Inv 233415 Franklin, TN

$ 1006
Boss Orange 11-20-71 = VIN P129379 = Inv 234050 SouthOrange, NJ

$ 1012
Blue Auto Bench 10-4-71 = VIN P114715 = Inv 116759 Skokie, IL
Silver Auto Bench 9-24-71 = VIN P109194 = Inv 096534 xxxx, IL
Orange Auto 9- 16-71 = VIN P? = Inv 078327 (AC Spark Plug Car) Flint, MI


No Price Structure Docs - just Buildsheet and Trim tag
Gold 4spd 5-?-72 = VIN A193008 = Inv ? Gaith, MD

Steve Barcack's Orange 4spd would make 16 - if I had a copy.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Yo Boss, why is your old Orange/White/White considered an Automatic car ?
It looks just like the Red 4spd @ $1006, and Built/Invoiced only 1 day apart.
Very tight VIN and Invoice Numbers, although from different plants.
Heck of a comparison.

Option was more early in model/billing.
Auto's were a few bucks more than 4 speeds in both price groups.

Whats up with this deal on the Orange and Red @ $1006
Both would be 4 speeds , right ?

[The Boss]

The Orange one was a stick car, my red one was also a stick but had an auto in it the whole time I owned it. Both Pontiac Plant builds & both from NJ.

Sundance Memo car




Cardinal

[1969 Ram Air]

Baron - that's some detailed WW5 information. I'm guessing that you like those cars a lot.

[Lloyd-TX]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Have 15 , 1972 GTO WW5 cars documented.

4 - 4 speeds ( 2 with A/C )

11 - Auto ( 7 with A/C ) ( 4 of the 11 are Bench Seat with Column Shift )

But I think one car is mis-labeled.
Sumpn aint right.


$ 982
Red 4spd 9-22-72 = VIN P142428 = Inv 740155 Para, NJ
Orange 4spd 6-12-72 = VIN P2030xx = Inv 612341 Corv, OR

$ 987
Gold Auto 3-14-72 = VIN A171774 = Inv 480131 Atlanta, GA
Gold Auto Bench ?-?-? = VIN P168515 = Inv ? Bell, WA
Green Auto Bench 1-5-72 = VIN A143220 = Inv 315943 Clark, TN
Yellow Auto 6-6-72 = VIN A210424 = Inv 668110 Austin, TX
Red Auto ?-?-? = VIN A176779 = Inv 528623 Unknown, USA
Orange Auto ?-?-? = VIN Z104729 = Inv ? Van Nuys, CA
Unkown Auto 4-2x-72 = VIN ? = Inv ? (very dark PHS along top) Smyrna,??

$ 1006
Red 4spd 11-19-71 = VIN A130269 = Inv 233415 Franklin, TN

$ 1006
Boss Orange 11-20-71 = VIN P129379 = Inv 234050 SouthOrange, NJ

$ 1012
Blue Auto Bench 10-4-71 = VIN P114715 = Inv 116759 Skokie, IL
Silver Auto Bench 9-24-71 = VIN P109194 = Inv 096534 xxxx, IL
Orange Auto 9- 16-71 = VIN P? = Inv 078327 (AC Spark Plug Car) Flint, MI


No Price Structure Docs - just Buildsheet and Trim tag
Gold 4spd 5-?-72 = VIN A193008 = Inv ? Gaith, MD

Steve Barcack's Orange 4spd would make 16 - if I had a copy.

Hey Todd:

I have the build sheet for that gold M22 WW5 car as well. Gleaned it from an e-bay auction. I also have no further docs or info on that car.

We had a lengthy discussion here on the firum concerning WW5 tidbits and option pricing years ago. I'll see if I can find it. I do recall that M22/M40 affected the price, as well as coupe vs. hardtop AND production dates. There was a mid-1972 model year price adjustment, something to do with a federal excise tax change, possibly?

[Lloyd-TX]

^^^^^

Here it is . . this should help clear up the pricing questions.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...&highlight=WW5

[The Boss]

Lloyd gets the credit for letting me know the Red car was originally built as a stick - I think I still owe him a steak for that!

[Lloyd-TX]

Originally Posted by The Boss

Lloyd gets the credit for letting me know the Red car was originally built as a stick - I think I still owe him a steak for that!

You're on, my friend. One of these days we just gotta meet in person!

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

THANKS ! for searching up that thread Lloyd .

I will run back through it after while and get re-schooled again.
Been a while since doing anything on WW5 stuff, but when I was categorizing the list of the 15 to post, saw the base price and options prices change / date patterns falling in line. That got me clearer as it went along.

And the topic car from Van Nuys has that notation about 12-11-71 price revisions on the document.
Here is another such document from a 72 GTO that sold new in my hometown.



That Gold WW5 4spd, I didn't save any pics of it and don't remember a whole lot about it - other than I did label it as a Rust Bucket.