[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Paul,
If that is the yardstick that you want to use, then Lil Jack's Visner Billet heads are junk.

But your yardstick is like comparing a grape and a grapefruit.

Total different classes and style engines.

I am sure Lil Jack is very happy he moved from E heads to the Visner Billet heads.

Stan

Hi Stan, no yardstick at all. However a very impressive number out of a set of basic E-heads. I really doubt that Jack's Visnor heads are junk and assure you if he threw them out there would be a lot of fights in front of that dumpster. I think he is quite happy with them and I look forward to seeing some numbers from Jack's car.

[chiefbigb]

Neither of the cars involved in this race currently run e-heads. They are great heads for the money and support good hp numbers. The design has also been out for 20 years and everyone has had that much time to maximize what they can do. Im sure if you gave both men 20 years to make more power than they are now It would happen. It will happen over time. The e-head has been maxed out without boost which they are not using. This being said port volumes/valve angle/ect must be changed to keep moving forward. Pissing the other man off often times creates the drive to do something you normaly wouldnt just to prove you can. We all gain from that.

[7T2]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Calvin, I always liked Robins accomplishments. Why did he retire? I heard he never figured out why he kept melting parts after switching to the CV1 heads?

thats not true-
posts #1 and #13 dispell that myth the plumber girls have been spewing for years-

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=659827

hurt 1 spark plug and valve after 80+ full on nitrous passes in the low 8's @ 3300lbs-nothing else... from the horses mouth

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by 7T2

thats not true-
posts #1 and #13 dispell that myth the plumber girls have been spewing for years-

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=659827

hurt 1 spark plug and valve after 80+ full on nitrous passes in the low 8's @ 3300lbs-nothing else... from the horses mouth

Thanks for clearing that up.

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

It's a good thing Robin went into NOS retirement, to date no E-headed NOS car has gone 174MPH at his weight as far as I'm aware of.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...hty+TA+174+MPH

Jack has not run that fast with his new deal either.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

That's funny, is that the pass he burnt it up on? If you over time a motor it will show some good mph... Once, maybe twice.


Also, no timeslip, no video = didn't happen!

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by chiefbigb

Neither of the cars involved in this race currently run e-heads. They are great heads for the money and support good hp numbers. The design has also been out for 20 years and everyone has had that much time to maximize what they can do. Im sure if you gave both men 20 years to make more power than they are now It would happen. It will happen over time. The e-head has been maxed out without boost which they are not using. This being said port volumes/valve angle/ect must be changed to keep moving forward. Pissing the other man off often times creates the drive to do something you normaly wouldnt just to prove you can. We all gain from that.

This is not true at all.
Every time i have tuned my ehead combo up it has made more. We've gained well over 150hp over the once thought max of eheads in the last 15 months.

Stock valve angles and placement.

You might want to sit down for this.....but i can see another 25-30 if i want it. A little costly but its there to take if I wanted it.

[chiefbigb]

Im not taking away anything from those running e-heads. I have 2 sets myself. Maybe Im looking at it like this. The potential for hp is greater in the more current design. If I had nothing and was investing in a engine combination to maximize the amout of hp that could be made I wouldnt go the e-head rout in 2015.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by chiefbigb

Neither of the cars involved in this race currently run e-heads. They are great heads for the money and support good hp numbers. The design has also been out for 20 years and everyone has had that much time to maximize what they can do. Im sure if you gave both men 20 years to make more power than they are now It would happen. It will happen over time. The e-head has been maxed out without boost which they are not using. This being said port volumes/valve angle/ect must be changed to keep moving forward. Pissing the other man off often times creates the drive to do something you normaly wouldnt just to prove you can. We all gain from that.

The Butlers made the 2850 hp about ten years ago and there are guys currently stepping up the performance of the E-heads. One shop is working on a CNC program that will hopefully make a commercially available E-Head that will be capable of exceeding 1100hp naturally aspirated!

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

We made 980hp (Pontiac) naturally aspirated on a budget, but we have never done an unlimited budget Pontiac build.

Fultons combo is NOT unlimited budget! More money than a street strip car? Sure, but no way unlimited budget.

We specialize in very fast street/strip engines. However our heads and intake have run as fast a 6.8 @ 204 mph on a traditional Buick V-8 with standard push rod location ( once again a budget engine) and we are planning on going faster this year.

At what weight and CI is this Buick? Is it NA? How is this relevant to a Pontiac discussion?
Do you specialize in port development or are you just another machinist with a die grinder porting heads and intakes?
I'm honest enough to say even I can make improvements with a die grinder and sand rolls but NO WAY am I a head porter nor am I claiming I could out do your work.

1100 HP NA Pontiac as a nitrous build(with the n2o off) compared against an NA Pontiac build with same ci or larger with over 3 points more compression is splitting hairs??? Really??? Cam timing events totally unfavorable to optimum NA requirements, manifolding, headers etc.. Really???

Just maybe you ought to find out who else uses the dyno Dick uses. Maybe you want to find out who witnessed results. Maybe find out what Dicks track reults were with his E-heads compared to numbers from same dyno. Others results from same dyno.

Its OK for you to tell us a dyno number, but somehow anything from the CV camp is a lie?

Dont get me wrong, not diminishing anyones Pontiac 1100+ hp NA build(not many regardless of head choice and they benefit all of us eventually), nor am I out to diminish your customers results.

I do however look at what an entire build is and judge it accordingly. They are all the sum of what they are.

To suggest nearly 4 points compression and same or greater cubes at higher rpm is "splitting hairs" is about as misleading as it gets.

Its as if you are assuming the average reader in this forum isnt smart enough to see the difference or know that a power adder motor is a completely different build than an NA combo.

[twinturrbo406]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

That's funny, is that the pass he burnt it up on? If you over time a motor it will show some good mph... Once, maybe twice.


Also, no timeslip, no video = didn't happen!

... and still another retarded statement, just hilarious how you turn a damaged plug & a dinged seat into ... " he burnt the engine up " ...

... Robin Roberts has never burned a single piston or head gasket from his CV-1 N20 engine, not once, anyone doubts that, then ask Robin yourself and see what he tells you ...

[twinturrbo406]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

Fultons combo is NOT unlimited budget! More money than a street strip car? Sure, but no way unlimited budget.



At what weight and CI is this Buick? Is it NA? How is this relevant to a Pontiac discussion?
Do you specialize in port development or are you just another machinist with a die grinder porting heads and intakes?
I'm honest enough to say even I can make improvements with a die grinder and sand rolls but NO WAY am I a head porter nor am I claiming I could out do your work.

1100 HP NA Pontiac as a nitrous build(with the n2o off) compared against an NA Pontiac build with same ci or larger with over 3 points more compression is splitting hairs??? Really??? Cam timing events totally unfavorable to optimum NA requirements, manifolding, headers etc.. Really???

Just maybe you ought to find out who else uses the dyno Dick uses. Maybe you want to find out who witnessed results. Maybe find out what Dicks track reults were with his E-heads compared to numbers from same dyno. Others results from same dyno.

Its OK for you to tell us a dyno number, but somehow anything from the CV camp is a lie?

Dont get me wrong, not diminishing anyones Pontiac 1100+ hp NA build(not many regardless of head choice and they benefit all of us eventually), nor am I out to diminish your customers results.

I do however look at what an entire build is and judge it accordingly. They are all the sum of what they are.

To suggest nearly 4 points compression and same or greater cubes at higher rpm is "splitting hairs" is about as misleading as it gets.

Its as if you are assuming the average reader in this forum isnt smart enough to see the difference or know that a power adder motor is a completely different build than an NA combo.

... ...

[twinturrbo406]

... just a nice pic update ...

[LiL Jack]

I figured you all would be at the track today! What is taking so long?


Tic toc tic toc

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

Fultons combo is NOT unlimited budget! More money than a street strip car? Sure, but no way unlimited budget.

NEVER said it was!

At what weight and CI is this Buick? Is it NA? How is this relevant to a Pontiac discussion?

It's irrelevant, so I don't know why you would ask.

Do you specialize in port development or are you just another machinist with a die grinder porting heads and intakes?

We specialized in head porting until we started building complete engines about twelve years ago. Now we specialize in both!

I'm honest enough to say even I can make improvements with a die grinder and sand rolls but NO WAY am I a head porter nor am I claiming I could out do your work.

Please start a thread telling us about all your accomplishments.

1100 HP NA Pontiac as a nitrous build(with the n2o off) compared against an NA Pontiac build with same ci or larger with over 3 points more compression is splitting hairs??? Really??? Cam timing events totally unfavorable to optimum NA requirements, manifolding, headers etc.. Really???

It seems like you are making the comparisons.

Just maybe you ought to find out who else uses the dyno Dick uses. Maybe you want to find out who witnessed results. Maybe find out what Dicks track reults were with his E-heads compared to numbers from same dyno. Others results from same dyno.

Why, is there something wrong with the calibration?

Its OK for you to tell us a dyno number, but somehow anything from the CV camp is a lie?

I never doubted ANY dyno numbers.

Dont get me wrong, not diminishing anyones Pontiac 1100+ hp NA build(not many regardless of head choice and they benefit all of us eventually), nor am I out to diminish your customers results.

I don't care.

I do however look at what an entire build is and judge it accordingly. They are all the sum of what they are.

You should be open minded.

To suggest nearly 4 points compression and same or greater cubes at higher rpm is "splitting hairs" is about as misleading as it gets.

I stand by my original statement "all the builds are winners".

Its as if you are assuming the average reader in this forum isnt smart enough to see the difference or know that a power adder motor is a completely different build than an NA combo

I don't have time to assume what other people think.

I hope this helps.

[twinturrbo406]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

I figured you all would be at the track today! What is taking so long?


Tic toc tic toc

... did i say we weren't ...

[Motor Daddy]

Originally Posted by twinturrbo406

... just a nice pic update ...

Sweet!!

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Motor Daddy

Sweet!!

X 2!

[JSPONT]

I think if he gets it together for Norwalk the fastest cv-1 head will be Bad69bird. That f2 does wonders for any head! ( maybe faster on e heads! LOL just kidding)

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by twinturrbo406

... ... Robin Roberts has never burned a single piston or head gasket from his CV-1 N20 engine, not once, anyone doubts that, then ask Robin yourself and see what he tells you ...

I actually tried to do this a few months ago when I was looking to purchase a set of CV1 heads. I pm'd the majority of the CV1 fellows on this board and they were less than helpful in putting me in touch with Robin.

[twinturrbo406]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

I actually tried to do this a few months ago when I was looking to purchase a set of CV1 heads. I pm'd the majority of the CV1 fellows on this board and they were less than helpful in putting me in touch with Robin.

... PM me and I'll make sure you get in touch with him ...