[Baron Von Zeppelin]

HOLY CHIT !

My apologies to GTOwolf for completely missing the debut of his Ram Air II GTO / Documents after trying to hunt him down for years.

I was off the internet and forums for a while from about Sept through this May.
Sorry I missed out and just now seeing your Buildsheet for the first time.

I will do a breakdown/option listing/price listing for your car like I have done for the rest of them and post it up soon.

Thanks many muchos for sharing your car and Buildsheet with us !

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The reason I came and dug this thread up tonight was because I just got wind that another Ram Air II GTO owner has found us.

CONVERTIBLE DeuceBurger
4 speed cog swapper ... fries and a shake.
They have had it since 1988

Happy 4th to all you guys and gals .

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

The reason I came and dug this thread up tonight was because I just got wind that another Ram Air II GTO owner has found us.

CONVERTIBLE DeuceBurger
4 speed cog swapper ... fries and a shake.
They have had it since 1988

Happy 4th to all you guys and gals .

Voodoo Green, Black, Black as well!

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

68 GTO Hardtop, Ram Air II, 4speed
Black, Black Vinyl Top, Black Bucket Seats

242378P318xxx = PMD Plant
Build Date May 29, 1968
Dealer / Zone 07-631 = PMD Retail Store

SVT - Cordova Top ...................................... 94.79
347 - Ram Air II ....................................... 473.94
358 - M21 4speed ..................................... 184.31
361 - STT HD Posi ....................................... 63.19
37S - 4.33 Axle ............................................ n/c
382 - AM Radio ........................................... 61.09
414 - HideAways......................................... 52.66
444 - Rally Gauges & Tach ........................... 84.26
461 - Deluxe Wheel Discs ............................ 21.06
494 - Rally Stripes ...................................... 10.53
502 - Pwr Brakes ......................................... 42.13
521 - Frt Disc Brakes ................................... 63.19
531 - SoftRay ALL ....................................... 34.76
621 - Ride & Handle....................................... 4.21
71R/72C - G77 x14 Redlines........................... n/c
754 - Frt Shoulder Belts ................................. n/c

Options Total ............................................ 1190.12

Base Price ................................................ 3101.00
Destination .................................................. 10.75

Label Price ................................................ 4301.87


I took liberty with destination charge from a 1970 GTO that sold through Retail Store.
1968 charge could have been less - or zero.

If I missed any options due to the darkness of document, please let me know.

If you can fill in the Road Wheel Code and Fan Spacer Code for us that would be cool too.
WT car with RC tires and Poverty Caps shows HG wheel code, yours looks more like HF code ?


Block WY - Carb XX (7028273) - Trans FT - Axle ZL

Air Cleaner - 826 = Standard 4bbl GTO Breather Installed = R/A components Un-Installed / In Trunk
(Ram Air Induction Memo Attached ^ )

PNT STR - C = Cameo Ivory Rally Stripes (Lower Body Accent)
Road Wheel - H _ (code next to valve stem)
WHL COL - A = Black Steel Wheels
Wheel Disc - 22 = Deluxe Wheel Disc - Full Hubcaps

Radiator - PA = 4 core (WT engine got code PC)
Fan - 34 = likely a 7 blade high pitch (WT engine got code BB fan)
Spacer - 5 _ = (WT engine got code 53)

R/A II was supposed to be a de-clutching fan according to literature/memos/documents

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Hey Wolfman-Black , don't you also have the PHS Billing History Card for this Dark Deuce of Spades machine ?

I'd like to have a copy of it too for my files and a cross-check.
THANKS !!

The Buildsheet is AWESOME Man !

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

R/A II was supposed to be a de-clutching fan according to literature/memos/documents

What would that fan look like? Is there a spacer involved?

Thanks for sharing the bulletin regarding the RA stuff being dealer installed. So, how would the vehicle ship from the factory? With a regular or some kind of temporary air cleaner? Were the closed scoops and temporary cleaner provided to the customer so they could reinstall when needed?

Do we have any photos showing how the engine bay looked as shipped? (Without the RA stuff installed)

Excellent thread!

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Here is our newest addition to the Ram Air II GTO Registry.
It is the earliest built GTO unit we have documented so far.

The owner is from Arizona and was kind enough to share his BHC document and trim tag with us for the archives.

If I remember right - this is only the 4th Convertible we have confirmed.
Car/Ownership has some pretty wild/interesting back story along with it.
Hopefully he will chime in soon and tell a bit.

Will go back through and update the listing and totals later on this evening.






1968 GTO Convertible
Ram Air II , 4speed
VooDoo Green, Black Buckets, Black Top
VIN 242678R1845xx = Arlington Texas Plant
Body Build Date 05D
Billing Date - May 27, 1968
Dealer 24-124 = A. Haskell Pontiac - Culver City, California

347 - Ram Air ................................... blank
358 - 4spd M21 ............................... 184.31
361 - STT HD Posi ............................. 63.19
37S - 4.33 Axle .................................. n/c
382 - AM Radio...................................61.09
394 - Stereo Tape Player ...................133.76
453 - Rally 2's .................................. 84.26
474 - Electric Clock ..............................0.00 (redundant)
484 - Rally Gauges & Clock .................50.55
501 - Power Steer...............................94.79
521 - Front Discs................................63.19
71R/72C - G77x14 Redlines................. n/c

Options Total ...................................735.14



Convertible Base........................... 3327.00
Destination..................................... 150.00

Ram Air I .......................................357.29

=============================
Total ............................................4569.4 3

Label Price.....................................4569.43

*BHC Memo Adjustment for Ram Air II Engine..... 101.65

*Jim Mino has given us previous example of one of the very first few Firebird Ram Air II cars that was initially billed as Ram Air I and Memo'd / Adjusted to Ram Air II in this exact same fashion.
The first week of production / billing for Ram Air II must have been a little sketchy.

*This is the earliest Ram Air II GTO documented so far.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Boss, your VooDoo Hardtop was Invoiced 1 day later on May 28 -
Probably already asked before , but what is the body build date on it ?

[PurelyGTO68]

Thank you for the invoice breakdown. We previously thought we were the fourth owners of the car based on the Arizona title history. (Titled in 1976, 1987 and then to us in 1988). Now that we know the car was purchased in California....I suppose it is possible the original owner simply moved to Arizona in '76 and re titled or there may have been 1 or more previous owners while in Cali. The lady we bought it from was in her early 50s at the time and she told some interesting stories about the previous life of the car.

I will be happy to post photos of the current condition and what I know of the history....and our upcoming plans a bit later.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Somehow I completely missed this post earlier.

Originally Posted by PurelyGTO68

What would that fan look like? Is there a spacer involved?
I think that has been an open-end question for some time now with various answers. The codes from GTOwolf's Bsheet should lead to some more definite answers though.

Thanks for sharing the bulletin regarding the RA stuff being dealer installed. So, how would the vehicle ship from the factory? With a regular or some kind of temporary air cleaner?
The same Air Cleaner mounted as a Base Engine GTO. Single Snorkel with a Chrome Lid. The Air Cleaner Code on GTOwolf's Bsheet is the same code as all 3 Base Engine (WT and YS) GTO Bsheets I have on file.
Am going to re-post Wolfman's Bsheet and another Bsheet from a 1 option Base WT GTO in another post later - so all things can be compared easily.


Were the closed scoops and temporary cleaner provided to the customer so they could reinstall when needed?
That is our understanding. But hard to say what might have actually happened with every car at every dealership.

Do we have any photos showing how the engine bay looked as shipped? (Without the RA stuff installed)
Not that I can recall.

Excellent thread!
There is another one with a lot of info also - Roll Call for the 68 Firebird Ram Air II's in the 67-69 Bird Department.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

This is one of Jim Mino's contributions in the 68 Firebird Ram Air II Roll Call thread.
From Nov 2007 concerning an Early Bird Ram II Vert's documentation.

Posting this to his credit and accuracy, further proven and further documented by the BHC for this newest GTO Ram II. And to lessen any doubts about both vehicles pedigree. Note the amount and date of the Memo's he recalls.
Right on the damn button !

[The Boss]

Todd, I thought Ross's Redrum car was the first & mine was the second - both are Pontiac Plant 05C cars although their invoices may be later. PM me the engine unit number off that BHC I want to check it against some of the blocks I've had & see where it falls.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The Invoice Number is/was what I judged that call on.
All things considered - its probably the best factoid to base from - short of having legible Buildsheets for each car.

As peculiar as it seems at first glance.
[shrug-idunno-dont wanna go there either. lol]

sending PM on EUN

[Ron Landis]

Got ripped off on our '69 RA IV car...charged $2.11 for the 4.33 gears!!!

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Latest Updates to the Registry Listing.

Decided to stop stacking the Convertibles all at the top, and just let them take the next spot in the line up as they come along.
Its going to mess up the order of things from older posts about Car 7 , Car 12 etc .... if they get shuffled .


1. Convertible Black- Black top- Gold interior - 4spd
Unrestored excellent survivor - high option - 56k miles
Sold at Mecum for 165k in 2011 or 2012
Documented BHC on PY

2. Convertible Burgandy- White top- White interior - 4spd
Being Frame Off Restored - well optioned
John in Ohio
Documented BHC on PY

3. Convertible Gold - Gold interior - Blk top - Automatic
Low mile survivor with cosmetic resto
Rob L in Illinois
documented

4. Convertible Red - Blk top - Blk interior - 4spd
Mark of Mich. his cousin bought it New. Been sold.

5. Blue - Blue interior - Automatic
Numbers match, intact survivor
Gary Oklahoma
documented

6. VooDoo Green - Black interior - Automatic
Project - missing origial drivetrain - but has the Right Stuff to put it back together
Chris "The Boss" in Conn. - bought from Gary Okla
Documented BHC on PY

7. VooDoo Green - Black Vinyl top - Black interior 4spd
Matching #s original survivor - has now been frame off restored by Greg Teeters
previously owned by Gary Oklahoma
Sold to Kevin in Seattle
documented

8. VooDoo Green - Black interior - 4spd
Brian OhiO
Documented BHC on PY

9. Aegena Blue - Black interior - 4spd
Bought on eBay as a project / parts car - was left outside with no front clip
Turns out as Matching #s Ram2 - parked since 1972 with 52k miles
Currently undergoing frame-off resto by owner
PY member gto66yellow in Indiana
documented
*Frame Off Resto is complete.

10. VooDoo Green - Gold interior - 4spd
project car being frame off restored by owner
now in Georgia - PY member gahotrods
Documented BHC on PY

11. Red - Blk interior - Blk Vinyl top - 4spd
Real Good above driver quality - older resto
Sold at Mecum auction Summer 2012
From Salmon Brothers Collection

12. VooDoo Green - Blk interior - Blk vinyl top - 4spd
Same owner since early 80's
Only recently discovered the car was factory Ram Air II (thanks Paul)
Non-original engine and converted to Automatic - prior to his ownership
Frame-Off Restoration is now planned.
Mark in OhiO - info supplied by PY member PaulatFast
Documented

13. Red - Red interior - Automatic
RedBull in Michigan
Documented BHC on PY

14. Black - White interior - 4spd
project car
EightBall - in corner pocket at Paul's
BHC has been verified by current owner/PY member

15. VooDoo Green with Black interior - 4spd
Hood Tach, AM-FM
Awaiting further details
Car is located somewhere

16. Black - Black Interior - Black Vinyl Top
WY 4 speed
The Deuce of Spades
Owned by GTOWolf since 1976
Faktry Buildsheet and PHS documents - built 5/29/68 @ Pontiac Plant

17. Black - Gold Interior - 4spd
36,000 actual miles - 2nd owner since 1981
Very well optioned
Currently located in Georgia
All original paperwork from original owner

18. Convertible - 4spd
VooDoo Green - Black Buckets - Black Top
Located in Arizona
Owned by PurelyGTO68 since 1988
Documented BHC on PY


== == == == == == == == == == == == == == == ==


Unverified Potentials :

Gold - Black Interior - 4spd
Located in Northeast - owned by NOPLNDN
Has PHS / BHC
*But no further postings or documents since Dec 25 2014
Jump back in here and fill us in NOPLNDN !


VooDoo Green - Black V.Top - 4spd
Located in Mich - owned by RAMAIR Rick since 1981
Has faktry Buildsheet and PHS / BHC
*But no further postings or documents since March 2014
Where did you go RAMAIR Rick !??


Black - Black V.Top - White Interior - 4spd
located Way out Westward
further details may or may not be shared with us - have to wait and see.
Very private owner.
*Been a pretty good while now, probably never will know anything else on this one.


= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

*MIA Car - Knafel in Ohio 68 GTO Ram2 Tin Indian Race Car
appears to be White body with Black interior - 4spd


*MIA Car - Stephen Pontiac in Conn. 68 GTO Ram2 Race Car
Mayfair Maize - 4spd - Endura Delete / Chrome Nose


* MIA Body -
complete LongBlock
Alpine Blue - Automatic
Documented BHC on PY

* MIA Body -
block only
Gold - Blk interior 4spd
Documented BHC on PY
Block / engine sold on eBay

* MIA Body -
block only
Gold - Gold interior 4spd
Documented BHC on PY
Block belongs to PY member in GA.

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Somehow I completely missed this post earlier.

So the Ram Air engines would have a heat riser on the left side manifold? Was there a special part number for that item or did the D port riser fit somehow?

Does anyone have good grind specs for the 041 camshaft? I have two books from the 80s...one co written by Pete Mcarthy and the other from the boys at HO Racing. One book says max lift is .470 and the other says .491 (both @1.5 rocker ratio). Which spec is correct?

The reason I ask about the fan is that our car has a large 4 blade fan. I think there was a spacer as well but darned if I can find that part. The earlier bulletin about a de clutch fan is interesting. Do you suppose that means the fan clutch was deleted from RA engines? I have heard of direct and clutch fans...but never a "de-clutch" type?

['ol Pinion head]

'68 RA II Rh exhaust manifold had a flapper and bimetal spring to open it up. Many originals, the spring and flapper is gone, that's how it is with the manifold I have. it's supposed to rain hard today, will be inside and get some pics.

Engine should have a 5 blade flex fan and corrct spacer. the fan is a "346" and typically the date code will predate the car build by quite a few months. I've removed and inspected from an original RAIV engine an original "346" flex fan that was dated 10 months prior. Off of original D port engines have pulled nearly a dozen 5 blade flex fans and the date spans were often far from "tight". hard to say dating on this fan, but I wouldn't expect an original to have "346" dated say 3/ 68

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

The Invoice Number is/was what I judged that call on.
All things considered - its probably the best factoid to base from - short of having legible Buildsheets for each car.

As peculiar as it seems at first glance.
[shrug-idunno-dont wanna go there either. lol]

sending PM on EUN

As far as you know...is our GTO the only one so far where the handwritten adjustment for RAII appears on the Billing History Card?

I find it interesting that our car as well as all affected RAII birds have the same date noted on the "adjustment". Any theories as to why that may be? Was that when the factories reconciled the invoices to the dealerships?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by PurelyGTO68

So the Ram Air engines would have a heat riser on the left side manifold?

Yes a shroud on the left side. But most are gone by now, and left out on most resto's I have seen. Car #9 Aegena Blue still had its shroud intact and went back on during resto.


... our car has a large 4 blade fan. I have heard of direct and clutch fans...but never a "de-clutch" type?

#9 also had a large plain stamped steel 4-blade when he got it. So he re-used it in the resto.
Only in my personal opinion - I really don't feel that it is correct.
I have one (4-blade) here in great shape from a 68 2bbl Catalina Non-A/C.
Folks switched fans for funny reasons, and sometimes good reasons, but I can't picture the R/A engines getting the bottom barrel fan from factory.

Another opinion - i think the fans would be similar to 65-67 fans with 7 blades and a clutch. But oPh could be right instead.

Car #3 (creampuff less than 9,000 miles) would be best bet for textbook example.
Maybe Mo will rejoin us sometime. He has access to the car.

If you can do an "advanced search" on here for all posts by username gto66yellow - he did a resto thread on Car #9. Had before (as found) and after pics of the driver side exhaust shroud.

Yes yours is the only GTO we have so far with the Memo / Adjustment.
Believe Jim Mino has seen several Early Built II Birds with it.
It makes me wonder if maybe one or two of the GTO's who have not shared their BHC with us might have the same Memo - but felt timid about coming forth with it for fear of heckling.

{opinion} Once discovered some were invoiced improperly, likely a full scale audit went into effect. The culprits were identified / gathered - then all got the Memo / Adjustment in one whack. It appears it only affected cars finished between May 20 through May 27.

I don't know what the after-effect would have caused at the dealer level (send us MORE money !) - but the dealers all got Memo's on pricing changes beforehand and probably had it all priced right between them and their buying customer.

Seems that Accounting just dropped the ball or didn't get the original Memo.

A lot of the factory literature, memo's etc... are posted on the Bird thread.
It came first , and was a combo-thread (Bird/GTO) for a while.
Sort of pissed off some Bird guys the way it was mixed. So after we had a good grip on most things, I started this one for GTO's.

[Gtowolf]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

68 GTO Hardtop, Ram Air II, 4speed
Black, Black Vinyl Top, Black Bucket Seats

242378P318xxx = PMD Plant
Build Date May 29, 1968
Dealer / Zone 07-631 = PMD Retail Store

SVT - Cordova Top ...................................... 94.79
347 - Ram Air II ....................................... 473.94
358 - M21 4speed ..................................... 184.31
361 - STT HD Posi ....................................... 63.19
37S - 4.33 Axle ............................................ n/c
382 - AM Radio ........................................... 61.09
414 - HideAways......................................... 52.66
444 - Rally Gauges & Tach ........................... 84.26
461 - Deluxe Wheel Discs ............................ 21.06
494 - Rally Stripes ...................................... 10.53
502 - Pwr Brakes ......................................... 42.13
521 - Frt Disc Brakes ................................... 63.19
531 - SoftRay ALL ....................................... 34.76
621 - Ride & Handle....................................... 4.21
71R/72C - G77 x14 Redlines........................... n/c
754 - Frt Shoulder Belts ................................. n/c

Options Total ............................................ 1190.12

Base Price ................................................ 3101.00
Destination .................................................. 10.75

Label Price ................................................ 4301.87


I took liberty with destination charge from a 1970 GTO that sold through Retail Store.
1968 charge could have been less - or zero.

If I missed any options due to the darkness of document, please let me know.

If you can fill in the Road Wheel Code and Fan Spacer Code for us that would be cool too.
WT car with RC tires and Poverty Caps shows HG wheel code, yours looks more like HF code ?


Block WY - Carb XX (7028273) - Trans FT - Axle ZL

Air Cleaner - 826 = Standard 4bbl GTO Breather Installed = R/A components Un-Installed / In Trunk
(Ram Air Induction Memo Attached ^ )

PNT STR - C = Cameo Ivory Rally Stripes (Lower Body Accent)
Road Wheel - H _ (code next to valve stem)
WHL COL - A = Black Steel Wheels
Wheel Disc - 22 = Deluxe Wheel Disc - Full Hubcaps

Radiator - PA = 4 core (WT engine got code PC)
Fan - 34 = likely a 7 blade high pitch (WT engine got code BB fan)
Spacer - 5 _ = (WT engine got code 53)

R/A II was supposed to be a de-clutching fan according to literature/memos/documents

Woodgrain steering wheel , my tach only goes to 5,200 as far as red line it did have a de clutching fan on it PA tag still there on Rad, anything else I can think of I'll let you know TY so much B.V.Z