[Gator67]

Car looks great. I'm glad you've got things sorted out and that it's running strong and cool.

[dreamn69]

What a difference! She is a beauty Bob.

[The Boss]

Wow Bob (& Dave), just WOW!

[Judge273]

Ready for Norwalk? Doug, Craig and other big names will be there...

[Bentwheelbob]

Yeah, pretty close to ready. The car is close to done, and I've got the cigars and your favorite moonshine. I look forward to seeing everyone.

[Held for Ransom]

See you there Bob. I won't have a car there, I'll just have to look for yours.

[Bentwheelbob]

Read back through and realized I read Judge273's post and saw "Norwalk", but heard "Dayton/TA Nats" in my mind. Regretably I will not make Norwalk, but will be in Dayton. Sorry I won't get to meet you Mike, and see Craig, Judge, Doug and many other friends.

On another note, the Gold Car went to the alignment shop yesterday and got the front end dialed in. These cars handle incredibly well.

[68ragtop]

Originally Posted by Bentwheelbob

On another note, the Gold Car went to the alignment shop yesterday and got the front end dialed in. These cars handle incredibly well.

driving a 78 WS6 against a non WS6 is surprising IMO. It's amazing how much stiffer they feel with such small changes between them. I swear even the seats feel stiffer in a WS6. I might put mine on the alignment machine soon & see how much positive caster I can get out of it without impacting the camber angle. I think that might improve it even more!

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by Bentwheelbob

Read back through and realized I read Judge273's post and saw "Norwalk", but heard "Dayton/TA Nats" in my mind. Regretably I will not make Norwalk, but will be in Dayton. Sorry I won't get to meet you Mike, and see Craig, Judge, Doug and many other friends.

On another note, the Gold Car went to the alignment shop yesterday and got the front end dialed in. These cars handle incredibly well.

Originally Posted by 68ragtop

driving a 78 WS6 against a non WS6 is surprising IMO. It's amazing how much stiffer they feel with such small changes between them. I swear even the seats feel stiffer in a WS6. I might put mine on the alignment machine soon & see how much positive caster I can get out of it without impacting the camber angle. I think that might improve it even more!

Guys, what alignment specs are you using for your WS6's? Somewhere I have the Herb Adams recommend specs also using his recommended 255/60/15 tires...have used them in the past and TAs handle like on rails. Have this setup on our '79 WS6 Y84.

I'm undecided on replacement tire size now for our '78...replacing 245/60/15's I installed back to (stock WS6 size?) 225/70/15, 245, or 255/60/15's

Bob, appears you're running the OEM size tires, yes?

[68ragtop]

Originally Posted by Alvin

Guys, what alignment specs are you using for your WS6's? Somewhere I have the Herb Adams recommend specs also using his recommended 255/60/15 tires...have used them in the past and TAs handle like on rails. Have this setup on our '79 WS6 Y84.

I don't know what mine are at but I can look it up tonight when I get home. I have a Hunter P611 alignment machine & when I recalled the specs it only had one selection for the 78 trans am so I used that. I think I adjusted it about 6 years ago when I first bought the machine.

My thinking is I would remove all the shims from the rearward side of the upper control arm shafts then add shims to the frontward side until I got the camber in spec. then see what side of the car has the least amount of caster
& shim the other side to match. That way both side would be the same & be the most positive caster I could get without offset parts.

this is just my thinking, haven't looked that close yet. For all I remember, It might be out of adjustment room already. I have seen some cars have no shims at all & still not have enough +caster. maybe a slightly sagged inward frame?

[68ragtop]

Just realized I had my front & rear shims backwards in thought above, but you guys know what I meant anyway

Here's the specs that are in my machine.

[3tas4me]

On another note, the Gold Car went to the alignment shop yesterday and got the front end dialed in. These cars handle incredibly well.[/QUOTE]

Yes, the Trans Ams and even the F bodies in general were way ahead of their time when it came to handling. Even today they don't drive like an old car when compared with a current model.

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by Bentwheelbob

Read back through and realized I read Judge273's post and saw "Norwalk", but heard "Dayton/TA Nats" in my mind. Regretably I will not make Norwalk, but will be in Dayton. Sorry I won't get to meet you Mike, and see Craig, Judge, Doug and many other friends.

Well now I feel a little less bad about missing Norwalk.

No shows this year...

Goatless
BW Bob
Uncle Jeff
& Me

There's always next year - sure not missing the hangover this morning and there was no line for my shower.

[68ragtop]

Alvin, do you know what those alignment specs were compared to the ones above? Not trying to steer the thread, but was curious how they compared to what I have.

[Bentwheelbob]

Alvin - they are OEM size tires in a Polysteel repop. I too would like to see the Herb Adams specs. Below is a photo of the Gold Car alignment sheet. Amazingly, after completely disassembling the entire front end and replacing every bushing and balljoint, all that needed adjusted was the Toe. We took careful measurements before disassembly and that certainly helped.

[68ragtop]

Originally Posted by Bentwheelbob

Alvin - they are OEM size tires in a Polysteel repop. I too would like to see the Herb Adams specs. Below is a photo of the Gold Car alignment sheet. Amazingly, after completely disassembling the entire front end and replacing every bushing and balljoint, all that needed adjusted was the Toe. We took careful measurements before disassembly and that certainly helped.

Funny, I was going to post that after looking at the sheet. Adjusting the toe will effect the caster swing measurements a little, & you can see that on your sheet. They could have got it a little closer, but for sure in spec & not worth taking things apart that you put together so carefully.
I have a tendency to fool around for a couple hours getting them as close as I can, because I can Not that it would make much a difference tho.
I'll bet Herb adams bumps the positive caster some & for sure a little negative camber. That would improve handling, but at the cost of some uneven tire wear.

How many shims do your upper arms have in place? I'm sure you already have pictures of that somewhere in your thread?

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by Bentwheelbob

Alvin - they are OEM size tires in a Polysteel repop. I too would like to see the Herb Adams specs. Below is a photo of the Gold Car alignment sheet. Amazingly, after completely disassembling the entire front end and replacing every bushing and balljoint, all that needed adjusted was the Toe. We took careful measurements before disassembly and that certainly helped.

Originally Posted by 68ragtop

Funny, I was going to post that after looking at the sheet. Adjusting the toe will effect the caster swing measurements a little, & you can see that on your sheet. They could have got it a little closer, but for sure in spec & not worth taking things apart that you put together so carefully.
I have a tendency to fool around for a couple hours getting them as close as I can, because I can Not that it would make much a difference tho.
I'll bet Herb adams bumps the positive caster some & for sure a little negative camber. That would improve handling, but at the cost of some uneven tire wear.

How many shims do your upper arms have in place? I'm sure you already have pictures of that somewhere in your thread?

From reprint in "Pontiac Power"

"Our '77 T/A goes from bumbling to bravo with some help from Nerb Adams VSE." by Tomas A. Demaro reprint of HPP original article.
Herb Adams has a five-part system so you can build up slowly to Fire Am handling. This is the way it lays out:

1. Begin inexpensively by tuning the components you already have. Set tire pressures properly, cut a half-coil off front springs to lower the front end, lighten the front bumper, set the steering lash correctly and, finally, have the Firebird's front end aligned to VSE specs below.

Castor = 1 to 2 degrees positive
Camber = 1/2 to 1 degree negative
Toe-in = 1/16 inch

Low-cost improvements include relocation of the forward leaf spring eyes, banishing the battery to the trunk, and the installation of the front end lowering kit and front structure kit."

This should get you started. I do have the specific '78 specific WS6 Adams specs archived somewhere in my files...IIRC the above alignment specs are the same as recommended by Herb Adams...and should be enough alignment wise to get you in the ball park. IIRC these are the specs used on my former '78 WS6 w 255/60/15 that handled like it was on rails.

Note the "steering lash adjustment" recommendation. Hope this helps.

Edit: Image below of source publication cover of quoted specs from article above. Provided for those who may desire to obtain their own copy.

[dreamn69]

Bob,

Not sure if you have heard, but Herb will be at the Nats and will be conducting a suspension seminar. I also have two of his catalogs and can make some copies of some of the technical portions and bring them with me if you would like.

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by dreamn69

Bob,

Not sure if you have heard, but Herb will be at the Nats and will be conducting a suspension seminar. I also have two of his catalogs and can make some copies of some of the technical portions and bring them with me if you would like.

Why not share the tech here?

[dreamn69]

I can, just didn't know if there were any legalities involved.