[GTO Dan]

The ones that fight you are always the ones that run best. Hang in and wishing you better luck next week. It will be more than worth it.

[PN]

Thanks for sharing in this thread Mike, hate to see the hiccups, but looking forward to seeing you out there this season!! Car is going to be an even bigger beast!!

[john marcella]

This motor is a pain in the Azz. Just sayin.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by john marcella

This motor is a pain in the Azz. Just sayin.

so was the customer

[cgeise]

Originally Posted by Chris Uratchko

LOL

That doesn't even scratch the surface of bizzaro world in engine building.

Most folks in the maximum effort category are wiling to shell 6-10k on cylinder head castings and rightly so after all the work involved.

But, for the engine guy, who is responsible for making it all happen .... you think he can charge 10k labor? Rarely......... if ever.

Chris jmo, but most guys that are doing this kind of racing can or have done a lot of this kind of work themselves-- In not saying the higher degrees that we are talking here but they have done "some" and so with some knowledge of how "they can do it " its real hard for most guys to pony up 120- 150 bucks an hour for some of this stuff to get done. Hope I made some sense.

[cgeise]

OH BTW Mike If you loose 200hp with a 1500 dollar manifold vs the one your running, just for the sake of getting your hackles up--- I aint buying it ))

[Chris Uratchko]

Originally Posted by cgeise

Chris jmo, but most guys that are doing this kind of racing can or have done a lot of this kind of work themselves-- In not saying the higher degrees that we are talking here but they have done "some" and so with some knowledge of how "they can do it " its real hard for most guys to pony up 120- 150 bucks an hour for some of this stuff to get done. Hope I made some sense.

To a degree you're right. But when you examine the hourly rate of other labors such as brake jobs, general vehicle maintenance, etc.... at over 100 per hour it is within reason to consider that you can make more money at those jobs than building engines.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by Chris Uratchko

To a degree you're right. But when you examine the hourly rate of other labors such as brake jobs, general vehicle maintenance, etc.... at over 100 per hour it is within reason to consider that you can make more money at those jobs than building engines.

Thats sounds right. And thats just wrong.

Like the guy with a private airplane. He wants a FAA certified A&P mechanic that can go to prison for failures, but only pay him $15 hour. But takes his Cadillac to the dealer and pays through the nose for sevice on it because his wife drives it.

[greggutknecht]

But if you come to the dealership i work at ill give you a really nice brake job.lol

[Stan Weiss]

Mike,
Sorry if this was ask before and I missed it. How much ignition timing are you able to run?

Stan

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Mike,
Sorry if this was ask before and I missed it. How much ignition timing are you able to run?

Stan

35 ish

[cgeise]

Originally Posted by mike leech

Thats sounds right. And thats just wrong.

Like the guy with a private airplane. He wants a FAA certified A&P mechanic that can go to prison for failures, but only pay him $15 hour. But takes his Cadillac to the dealer and pays through the nose for sevice on it because his wife drives it.

I never said it was right or wrong just offered an opinion on why -- that's all. We all know that there are some guys in the automotive world that think there fookin "Artists" and that people should pay what ever comes out of there mouth == just because, they could be painters , head guys or whatever -- I, like most guys will pay a fair price for the level of product I want and expect, if that makes sense.
As far as the Dealership comparison-- not fair on some levels, the expenses in those places are crazy nuts, I know I ran some for 25 years, Do the independent guys have those same kind of expenses, no - or at least not many and not for long.

[greggutknecht]

GM forces them to send us to school and buy specialty tools both cost the dealer a fair amount but i do agree some of the costs are crazy.

[john marcella]

Originally Posted by cgeise

I never said it was right or wrong just offered an opinion on why -- that's all. We all know that there are some guys in the automotive world that think there fookin "Artists" and that people should pay what ever comes out of there mouth == just because, they could be painters , head guys or whatever -- I, like most guys will pay a fair price for the level of product I want and expect, if that makes sense.
As far as the Dealership comparison-- not fair on some levels, the expenses in those places are crazy nuts, I know I ran some for 25 years, Do the independent guys have those same kind of expenses, no - or at least not many and not for long.

And some guys don't have the slightest clue what that job actually involves both time wise and skill-wise. But somehow still manage to form an opinion of its value, expensive or not. Lol

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by cgeise

I never said it was right or wrong just offered an opinion on why -- that's all. We all know that there are some guys in the automotive world that think there fookin "Artists" and that people should pay what ever comes out of there mouth == just because, they could be painters , head guys or whatever -- I, like most guys will pay a fair price for the level of product I want and expect, if that makes sense.
As far as the Dealership comparison-- not fair on some levels, the expenses in those places are crazy nuts, I know I ran some for 25 years, Do the independent guys have those same kind of expenses, no - or at least not many and not for long.

You missed the point. The a&p mechanic can be charged criminally. The grease monkey is held harmless. Regardless of opinion the A&P likely has a lot more education too.

The a hole with the plane and the caddy is the one who chooses which is worth what. Wouldnt you want the better service from the guy fixing the vehicle that cant be pulled over on the side of the road while the tow truck comes?

Its all perspective.

[mgarblik]

An automotive technician that causes injury or death to the car owner can most certainly be held liable if found to be negligent in court, and may serve jail time. A bus mechanic who screwed-up a brake job in my area went to jail for 2 years. Any technician who has any assets or plans to ever have any in the future better have some liability insurance. I carry $1,000,000 worth and try to do quality work.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

An automotive technician that causes injury or death to the car owner can most certainly be held liable if found to be negligent in court, and may serve jail time. A bus mechanic who screwed-up a brake job in my area went to jail for 2 years. Any technician who has any assets or plans to ever have any in the future better have some liability insurance. I carry $1,000,000 worth and try to do quality work.

Yet again ....... When your car quits running what do you do? Pull over?

When your airplane quits running what do you do? Look for a place to crash?

Your chances of suvival are a whole lot better in a car with engine trouble eh? But whatever you all missed it.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by mike leech

Yet again ....... When your car quits running what do you do? Pull over?

When your airplane quits running what do you do? Look for a place to crash?

Your chances of suvival are a whole lot better in a car with engine trouble eh? But whatever you all missed it.

I didn't miss your point, I got it loud and clear. A friend of mine is an aircraft mechanic, he told me the first thing he was taught in school was to never initial your tools.... I doubt they teach that in automotive school.

[mgarblik]

I did understand you and agree the stakes are higher when you are in the air than on the ground. I personally feel you should be required to have a license to work on a persons vehicle for pay. It would raise the quality of the entire auto repair industry. In Ohio, you must be licensed to fix a dripping faucet but you can work on anyones 80K vehicle with 30 computers on board without any credentials at all unless required by your employer. It's very hard to know who is really good or just a good talker. In the racing business, word of mouth, actual track results, races won, championships won, that's at least a measuring stick.

[cgeise]

Originally Posted by john marcella

And some guys don't have the slightest clue what that job actually involves both time wise and skill-wise. But somehow still manage to form an opinion of its value, expensive or not. Lol

Are you Saying I don't have a clue ???