[Pontiac Derek]

Under 10,000$ from my Shop
I can run the numbers and post them but i am not a Paying Advertiser so i dont want to get booted.
After years of back to back engine dyno-chassis Dyno i have learned that a TH400 with a 10 or 12 bolt eats aprox 21-23% and a Lot are actually 25-28%
My 4x4 truck ate 27.5% just trying to put things in perspective for people!
TH350 is 20-22% for a well built typical setup.
Our Big Stall Converters make the Chassis Dyno Numbers look like crap but run the number at the track.
Manual Trans Muscle cars are almost always between 15-16%
Now Ernie's car at 3850lbs I'm guessing on the weight, he is doing pretty well and i bet money
He is between 585-595hp at the Flywheel, 605tq as well
There isn't anymore "Big Chunks" of power to be found anymore
But making it more efficient, less friction, Synthetic fluids in the drivetrain.
When he Refreshens the short block i am expecting 10's for sure.
But there will still be haters no matter what!

[Pontiac Derek]

9 even, minus carb, and headers
95 hundred Dyno tuned minus carb and headers
605-620hp 610-620tq pump gas

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by pastry_chef

Rear ratio aside, there is engine power left on the table with this 236 cam.

Did you mean what would 2.73 rear numbers be?
The sim says it would lose another .1 and 1 MPH
So a bigger relative loss than 4.10 to 3.08

Yeah, kinda. Like, from 410 to 308, that's like a 1. jump, was thinking for every .50 jump, what would the difference be? Like 410 to 355, 355 to 308, 308 to 252, rinse, repeat. Was just trying to see if there was a correlation. Could probably even graph it.

More of a curiosity thing. But guess cam manufacturers pretty much do that anyway, with their' gear & stall recommendations.

.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Pontiac Derek

...
After years of back to back engine dyno-chassis Dyno i have learned that a TH400 with a 10 or 12 bolt eats aprox 21-23% and a Lot are actually 25-28%
...

I never understood these kinds of statements, like, how can you do it in a percent? Like, so on an engine that makes 1000hp, you give up more than an engine that makes 300hp? I would think it takes X loss, regardless of what the engine makes?

Like at 25%, a 1000hp engine gives up 250hp, and for a 300hp engine, it gives up 75hp? That math just isn't working for me.

Something like, 'A TH400 takes 50hp more to drive than a TH350 does' makes more sense in my mind. Like saying 'A 10 bolt takes 25hp less to turn than a 9" ' . That I can digest.

.

[Pontiac Derek]

Yeah those Gear and Stall Recommendations should be taken with a grain of salt!
Too Many people take them wayyy too serious!
I would like them to use a different a different method of advertising The RPM
Range of a camshaft!

[Pontiac Derek]

Yes i can because i have done the testing, and i have hands on experience doing it.
Higher Horsepower Engines Lose around the Same Percentage as lower Horsepower engines, there is no Set Amount of Hp that a TH400 or 9" takes
You cant just say a 9" takes 75hp to turn because its Dynamic!
Higher Horsepower engines rev faster, the Faster you try to turn those drivetrain parts the more friction it creates therefore it takes more HP to turn it.
For whatever reason 21% is pretty accurate in street/strip setups, as hp increases you will see a higher % of hp loss, for what we are talking about Ernie's car is using about 21%, that matches what i know the engine combo can produce.
The harder you Accelerate rotating mass the more HP its going to require, as well as torque.
I am not an MIT Grad, Im just some Dumb Grease Monkey that tests stuff and then provides the results as best i can!
Get on your Bicycle put it in the hardest gear and gently apply torque to the peddle on a flat road, you can get going while not using much power but you wont be getting anywhere fast, Now same Situation except accelerate the Bike as fast as you can, Takes a Lot more power doesn't it!
I know a thing or two, Because I've seen a thing or two ;-)

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

I never understood these kinds of statements, like, how can you do it in a percent? Like, so on an engine that makes 1000hp, you give up more than an engine that makes 300hp? I would think it takes X loss, regardless of what the engine makes?

Like at 25%, a 1000hp engine gives up 250hp, and for a 300hp engine, it gives up 75hp? That math just isn't working for me.

Something like, 'A TH400 takes 50hp more to drive than a TH350 does' makes more sense in my mind. Like saying 'A 10 bolt takes 25hp less to turn than a 9" ' . That I can digest.

.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Pontiac Derek

Yes i can because i have done the testing, and i have hands on experience doing it.
Higher Horsepower Engines Lose around the Same Percentage as lower Horsepower engines, there is no Set Amount of Hp that a TH400 or 9" takes
You cant just say a 9" takes 75hp to turn because its Dynamic!
Higher Horsepower engines rev faster, the Faster you try to turn those drivetrain parts the more friction it creates therefore it takes more HP to turn.
I am not an MIT Grad, Im just some Dumb Grease Monkey that tests stuff and then provides the results as best i can!
Get on your Bicycle put it in the hardest gear and gently apply torque to the peddle on a flat road, you can get going while not using much power but you wont be getting anywhere fast, Now same Situation except accelerate the Bike as fast as you can, Takes a Lot more power doesn't it!
I know a thing or two, Because I've seen a thing or two ;-)

Very good explanation, I can understand that! Thank you for taking the time to explain!

I always brushed off the consumption part, I figure it is what it is, and you wouldn't put a time bomb trans or rear in a 1000hp car!

.

[Pontiac Derek]

Yeah no problem, it can be very confusing but in the LS Engine World They Talk Rear Wheel HP not Engine Dyno HP and i was getting mixed answer's from almost everyone so i thought i would start testing to see how much power loss there really is so after a thousand hours of research and testing and from talking with several other experts we came that conclusion.
But as i said I'm no MIT grad!! Thats how i think of it anyway, im sure there will be many more opinions!

[Skip Fix]

Called Torque Tech today he is retiring I ordered 2 of the 3 remaining F body tailpipes left-so one more guys!

[MUSLCAH]

Ta-Man......you running open headders and slicks at the track ?

[wheneaglesfly]

Originally Posted by Pontiac Derek

Yeah no problem, it can be very confusing but in the LS Engine World They Talk Rear Wheel HP not Engine Dyno HP and i was getting mixed answer's from almost everyone so i thought i would start testing to see how much power loss there really is so after a thousand hours of research and testing and from talking with several other experts we came that conclusion.
But as i said I'm no MIT grad!! Thats how i think of it anyway, im sure there will be many more opinions!

He is drag racing.
Rear wheel horsepower from a Chassis Dyno is Moot.

He is running faster than a $100,000 Z06 Corvette does typical.

Close to what an H-car can do with a decent driver.

[wheneaglesfly]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

Called Torque Tech today he is retiring I ordered 2 of the 3 remaining F body tailpipes left-so one more guys!

Torque Tech 3.00" works.
I dropped unhooked off the header collectors in the past.
No ET or MPH change.

[wheneaglesfly]

Beautiful made Torque Tech.
Too bad they are gone.
Glad I bought mine back in 1996.

[ta man]

Originally Posted by MUSLCAH

Ta-Man......you running open headders and slicks at the track ?

3 inch PYPES X Crossover into 2.5 inch Flowmaster cone reducers into 2.5 Ultraflows...for tires M/T et street radials 275/60/15 at 18lbs...need a new set very soon

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

Called Torque Tech today he is retiring I ordered 2 of the 3 remaining F body tailpipes left-so one more guys!

Yeah, shame I didn't act sooner.

Anyone ever use the FlowMaster American Thunder tail pipes on a 2nd gen F?

.

[Skip Fix]

He said he is 71 and retiring. The A body exhaust went along time ago.

[Pontiac Derek]

Originally Posted by ta man

3 inch PYPES X Crossover into 2.5 inch Flowmaster cone reducers into 2.5 Ultraflows...for tires M/T et street radials 275/60/15 at 18lbs...need a new set very soon

Dang man you haven't even tried some real sticky tires yet? You might give that a shot lol !!!

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Pontiac Derek

Dang man you haven't even tried some real sticky tires yet? You might give that a shot lol !!!

Ya he should put sticky bias-ply on, im sure he'll go faster.

[ta man]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Yeah, shame I didn't act sooner.

Anyone ever use the FlowMaster American Thunder tail pipes on a 2nd gen F?

.

I've used the 2.5 inch pipe it fits well.

[MUSLCAH]

Street tires and closed exhaust.....11.20 ....I'll take that any day !