[johnta1]

Back when, the round ports were worth a ton of money.
(no aluminum heads then)

Most didn't want to hurt them if they could use a run of the mill D-port with a power adder to go faster.
And the ones who did use round ports were faster than the D-ports.

After the aluminum heads were around the round ports were cheaper, but it was easier to port the aluminum heads and make more power than the cast iron heads.

Bigger volume, better porting will usually always make more HP.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Back when, the round ports were worth a ton of money.
(no aluminum heads then)

Most didn't want to hurt them if they could use a run of the mill D-port with a power adder to go faster.
And the ones who did use round ports were faster than the D-ports.

After the aluminum heads were around the round ports were cheaper, but it was easier to port the aluminum heads and make more power than the cast iron heads.

Bigger volume, better porting will usually always make more HP.

How do you know they were faster ? I have not heard of any 1600 HP twin turbo RAIV/HO builds. Now 2 D port versions gone that high.

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Back when, the round ports were worth a ton of money.
(no aluminum heads then)

Most didn't want to hurt them if they could use a run of the mill D-port with a power adder to go faster.
And the ones who did use round ports were faster than the D-ports.

After the aluminum heads were around the round ports were cheaper, but it was easier to port the aluminum heads and make more power than the cast iron heads.

Bigger volume, better porting will usually always make more HP.

The round ports were left for restoration.. I had a set many years ago and didn't cut them up.. Like you said, I ran a ported set of d ports with the bottle... I'm glad many took the same route as me.. Too rare to cut up in my opinion...

[Dragncar]

How is a good port job 'cutting" cutting the head up ? A good porter is not going to ruin the head and its still fine for restoration. I would not have thought twice about using the 272cfm 48s in a resto.

[johnta1]

The 48's are a dime a dozen!

The RA IV were a couple thousand dollars!
The SD 455's were basically unobtainable!

The reason is as said, when the aluminum heads came out, no sense in trying to go fast with cast iron round ports. They went to high dollar restored cars.

This isn't to say there were none, because there were racers using the round ports. (like Beswick and others?)
Class racers used them but not power adder.

[Dragncar]

I got my HOs for 600 bucks in 1988. Good 48s are worth near that today. (look at the for sale section and see the price a member stated out at, 1,500+)
I would not think twice about using my HOs with a centrifugal. They (iron) do seal well. I think it would be great if Justin used some 310cfm RAIVs (maybe 320 on big bore) on his car. Beating all the others with a factory iron head. Bet he could make 2000HP with twin turbos, or close.
Said it before and its true, a cast steel version of the E head, that looked like a 722 or 614 head would sell, and sell well. Being cast steel you could do anything to it that you can do with a aluminum E head, seal much better and only about 45Lbs more on the front of your car. Cast steel is just as repairable as aluminum, cheaper and holds the heat. Which does matter when making power. Marty had to adjust to the aluminum loosing its heat when he went to the E head.

[johnta1]

All it takes is money.



You could make them and see how good they do.
I think someone did a cast iron RA IV head, don't think it sold very many?

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by johnta1

All it takes is money.



You could make them and see how good they do.
I think someone did a cast iron RA IV head, don't think it sold very many?

Butler never finished any of those RAIV that I know of. Doubt any were for sale.
Edelbrock makes more on their Pontiac heads than other long dead engines. You cant tell me they sell more aluminum Olds and FE heads than Pontiac, yet charge us more.

[kmtw]

the hit count on this twin turbo GTO video went over 4,000 hits now, when I posted the thread last week it was like 2,800 hits or less. Facebook is a lame aszed place to post a video. people may comment "nice" or put a smiley or thumbs up on it, but anything posted on Facebook just dies there. a message board catering to Pontiac addicts is a way better place to post- it got over 2,000 hits here alone in the lobby and race forums combined.
so much for facebook....

[kmtw]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

I got my HOs for 600 bucks in 1988. Good 48s are worth near that today. (look at the for sale section and see the price a member stated out at, 1,500+)
I would not think twice about using my HOs with a centrifugal. They (iron) do seal well. I think it would be great if Justin used some 310cfm RAIVs (maybe 320 on big bore) on his car. Beating all the others with a factory iron head. Bet he could make 2000HP with twin turbos, or close.
Said it before and its true, a cast steel version of the E head, that looked like a 722 or 614 head would sell, and sell well. Being cast steel you could do anything to it that you can do with a aluminum E head, seal much better and only about 45Lbs more on the front of your car. Cast steel is just as repairable as aluminum, cheaper and holds the heat. Which does matter when making power. Marty had to adjust to the aluminum loosing its heat when he went to the E head.

making big HP on the engine or chassis dyno is one thing...
coming up with the money and time to have the car certified, buy all the safety equipment, and actively campaign it on a regular basis is another...and you need a truck and trailer to tow it in.
which is why we see race cars on the street, that never go to the track...and probably never will...if so, then rarely...
the safety certification and throwaway safety harness, etc has turned it into a monopoly.

[455TA]

Originally Posted by kmtw

the hit count on this twin turbo GTO video went over 4,000 hits now, when I posted the thread last week it was like 2,800 hits or less. Facebook is a lame aszed place to post a video. people may comment "nice" or put a smiley or thumbs up on it, but anything posted on Facebook just dies there. a message board catering to Pontiac addicts is a way better place to post- it got over 2,000 hits here alone in the lobby and race forums combined.
so much for facebook....

I'm the main admin of Pure Pontiac Powered No Prep Outlaws on Facebook. I posted the video on my page - it has 10,500+ members and most of them are Pontiac diehards.

[Tom Vaught]

When Danny Scott, Bruce, and some of the other Detroit Street Racers "Raced" with their "FASTEST Street Cars" (DETROIT STREETS) they parked the trailers 1/2 mile away and drove down the street to the race. Finished the racing, drove back to the trailers, loaded up and took their "STREET CARS" home.

Some merit to that if the cops surrounded the race site and took the cars, at least the $$$$ truck and trailers were out of reach of the law. Not at all like the OKEY Race set-up with the cops and ambulance standing by.

Tom V.

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by kmtw

making big HP on the engine or chassis dyno is one thing...
coming up with the money and time to have the car certified, buy all the safety equipment, and actively campaign it on a regular basis is another...and you need a truck and trailer to tow it in.
which is why we see race cars on the street, that never go to the track...and probably never will...if so, then rarely...
the safety certification and throwaway safety harness, etc has turned it into a monopoly.

It can get expensive and it is a racket.. Send back a $1500 blower restraint for a 14-71 and see if they will recertify it... Most likely they will not , keep the one you sent back and force you to buy a new one.. It cost 4k to suit up a driver in a funny car with all the proper gear... Its like anything..if it is labeled "safety" it cost 3x as much..its that way in the business I'm in.. Buy a red safety relay and its 3x the cost of one that isn't "red" but does the same thing... Total racket.. I figured out a way to resertify several things on the funny car myself.. ;-)

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

When Danny Scott, Bruce, and some of the other Detroit Street Racers "Raced" with their "FASTEST Street Cars" (DETROIT STREETS) they parked the trailers 1/2 mile away and drove down the street to the race. Finished the racing, drove back to the trailers, loaded up and took their "STREET CARS" home.

Some merit to that if the cops surrounded the race site and took the cars, at least the $$$$ truck and trailers were out of reach of the law. Not at all like the OKEY Race set-up with the cops and ambulance standing by.

Tom V.

Hmmmmm Danny and Bruce .....Danny Scott (I think it was "Moms Headace") and Bruce Kimmen of "Heads Up" racing both raced at Detroit Dragway but at different decades. I never raced against Danny but I did race Bruce back then he had a Wheel Standing injected Vega.....nice car, fast for back then. I remember back a long, long time ago Bruce and someone else at Indy (Div. 3 Bracket Finals) threw the manager of the Best Western Hotel in the Hotel pool.....FUN TIMES, Indy was always FUN!!
OK....sorry back on TOPIC!

GTO George

[Tom Vaught]

George, Bruce was the one caught cheating when his gas tank (not fuel cell I believe) was ruptured in a crash and the NOS Bottle was found inside the tank. 1969 Camaro, not the vega. More info here:

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh....php?p=5885915 Post #47
"That was Bruce Kimmens '69 Camaro, not a GTO. And, there was no boom because the bottle never exploded. Bruce first claimed he didn't know that the Mayer boys put it in the car and later recanted claiming that he did know about it, but said it was only used for match races and never in class-legal competition."

You probably remember that deal, George, right?

Tom V.

From a Magazine Article:
The C.A.R.S. Camaros
In the very early ’90s, a quartet of first-gen Camaros hit the street and race scene. They were all-steel cars with full interiors and glass windows, and they were unexpectedly fast-for the day at least. The cars included Danny Scott’s Seafoam Green ’67 Camaro, an orange ’68 Camaro owned by Jim Treppa, Bruce Kimmen’s blue ’69, and a yellow ’69 belonging to Rick Dyer. When they first arrived on the scene, all of them looked like restos except for the tubbed rearends and ‘cages. And they all sported thundering engines underhood. While Rick’s ADHD would get him and his Camaro lots of attention, the fastest and probably most significant car in the bunch was Danny’s. He would lay down 8.40s in the car and be awarded one of the Fastest Street Cars in America in 1991 and 1992. We caught up with Danny’s Camaro as well as Rick’s to show you what they look like today and to catch up on what the cars have been through in the last 15-plus years. We know Bruce’s Camaro is still in action, as is Jim’s, but we weren’t able to track them down before press time for this issue."
Rick Dyer was a east side guy who ran a body shop off of Gratiot Avenue.

Personally I think that the Detroit Guys along with Max Carter and a few others were years ahead of the current SO racing (on TV).
The Detroit cars got a lot faster once they got rid of the street car image stuff. Moran, the first in the 5s, I believe, with his car set-up.
$,$$$,$$$ later.

ps If Jim Yanoski wants to make 1600 HP with his Twin Turbo deal, go for it.

[GTOGEORGE]

Yea....thats all internet stuff.........Good Job!


GTO George

[Tom Vaught]

Ok Smart Guy, First Question;
Who were Corky and Fred and who was the Hit Man and what did he drive and where did he race?

Who Was John Carter and why was he in Michigan at a private home? Name the private home
and what was the owner doing for Carter?

Tom V.

[GTOGEORGE]

Smart Guy......yea maybe or maybe I just race every weekend at Detroit Dragway from 74 till it closed so if they raced at Detroit I’ve probable know them and raced against them! LOL!


GTO George

[Tom Vaught]

Thank you George for proving my point.

Back on topic.
Thread is about Jim Y and his D-Port Twin Turbo effort.
Basically a similar set-up to Marty Palbykin's first boosted engine that went into the 6s in the 1996-1998 time frame at 206 mph. Lot of Jim's parts are similar to what Marty ran so he should do well and have a lot of fun doing it.

Tom V.