[Mr Anonymous]

Driving is one of the scant few joys I have in my life. Take that away, I might as well get a gun and paint the wall with my brain.

My son, who just got his license, is old school enough to enjoy the sound of a badass v8, or nitro Pontiac even. Just drove his "Hurst/Olds" clone station wagon to school for the first time yesterday. In a world of EFI Hondas and other "transportation appliances", his carb'd v8 is something few fellow students understand. Having to pump the gas before turning the key? Pure sorcery!

[bird72]

We'll just weld spikes and stuff all over the Poncho's and Mad Max it.......

[77 TRASHCAN]

If my memory is working, just a little, wasn't Mr Lutz associated with Pontiac, at some time, President of GM?

I think his medical mary jane must be affecting him in a big way....
I was involved in helping one of my best friends wife, go through the process of getting him to quit driving. He has had Parkinson's for about 7 years. He just refused to quit. Thankfully nothing bad happened.

Out great country is all about freedoms. Many freedoms. Worship, daily living, jobs, schools, speech, and more, One freedom we've really latched onto is the freedom to go where ever we want, whenever we want.

Yes, the current generation has different ideas about things, many of these ideas are VERY bad, but being independent of others via mobility is something great!!!

Maybe Lutz is another of these attention seekers, who knows. All the false garbage we get slung at us, it's easy for me to sort all the bull, but these youngsters believe everything they hear............

[Chris65LeMans]

Originally Posted by 77 TRASHCAN

If my memory is working, just a little, wasn't Mr Lutz associated with Pontiac, at some time, President of GM?

I think his medical mary jane must be affecting him in a big way....
I was involved in helping one of my best friends wife, go through the process of getting him to quit driving. He has had Parkinson's for about 7 years. He just refused to quit. Thankfully nothing bad happened.

Out great country is all about freedoms. Many freedoms. Worship, daily living, jobs, schools, speech, and more, One freedom we've really latched onto is the freedom to go where ever we want, whenever we want.

Yes, the current generation has different ideas about things, many of these ideas are VERY bad, but being independent of others via mobility is something great!!!

Maybe Lutz is another of these attention seekers, who knows. All the false garbage we get slung at us, it's easy for me to sort all the bull, but these youngsters believe everything they hear............

I was going to say something to that effect: His ability to predict the future obviously wasn't so hot when he was running GM.

In other news:
Driverless shuttle launched in Las Vegas. Has a crash immediately.

[David Jones]

Car and Driver devoted a large part of the current issue to the many aspects of this subject.

20 years ain't going to happen.

Fox news reported in the last day or two about a "driver less" shuttle recently launched in Las Vegas. It wrecked before the 1st day was out. Supposedly a semi was at fault but honestly...what difference does that make?

[tripower]

Originally Posted by David Jones

Fox news reported in the last day or two about a "driver less" shuttle recently launched in Las Vegas. It wrecked before the 1st day was out. Supposedly a semi was at fault but honestly...what difference does that make?

Each party involved in a litigated accident is typically assigned a percentage level of fault. It would be interesting to hear what the shuttle company’s vehicle did to avoid the accident. Just slowing down or stopping may not be good enough. In driverless vehicles, liability rests with the deep pocket software companies navigating the vehicle. In human driven vehicles, liability rests with the driver, who typically only carry a $25,000 policy.

[Tempest]

The Ontario Government is jamming this down our throats,....starting with an $80 million dollar research facility (over the next 5 years) to study "autonomous vehicles".

I am going to enjoy burning gas as long as I can


http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn...s-in-stratford

[getmygoat]

Lutz is on somebody's payroll... Probably Uber's or another silicon valley entity rolling in dough. His job is to evangelize the technology to further adoption.

It might happen. His timeframe seems aggressive. The transition will happen gradually. We might share the road with autonomous vehicles in 10 years. I doubt sooner. Complete phase out of human drivers is at least 20 yeas away. Still time to bang 2nd.

[John V.]

I mentioned some of the non-technical challenges in my earlier post. Another of these is worker displacement. Millions drive as their job. More than 3 million truck drivers. Add to that total, taxi drivers, delivery drivers, bus drivers. They have to be considered though you should remember that millions of workers have been displaced by technological advances in the past, it is unlikely that fully autonomous vehicles will be derailed over concern for displaced workers. And while some believe that our economy won't have the capacity to create jobs for these displaced workers, there is no evidence that it won't. Our economy has far more jobs today than it did back when typewriter repairmen, milkmen, icehouse workers, bowling alley pinsetters, telephone switchboard operators, and hundreds of other job positions were viable jobs but no longer exist, not to mention the need for fewer workers to perform at jobs that do still exist but are now aided by automation rather than the use of more bodies. If there is evidence that technology causes a decline in aggregate jobs, I'm not aware of it.

Driverless vehicles are already on the road. This isn't about a figment of a wild imagination anymore. Testing of real vehicles on real roads is already happening.

The end game is considered Level 5 fully autonomous vehicles. As Lutz identifies it, it is on the highways where this will happen. The technical challenges are more easily overcome for highway driving.

And as I mentioned, it will happen for trucking first. The reason being is that the cost of driver wages and benefits for transporting freight OTR is approximately 25% or more of the total.

Eliminating the driver will be a big advantage to the shipper.

Having a human babysit a semi-autonomous rig may make sense in the near term as the challenges are encountered and then solved. But that is the technology today. Rapid advances are being made and I believe Lutz is forecasting the day when the driver will not be in the truck.

Will there be a traffic control center manned by humans to orchestrate the vehicles? Time will tell.

That bus that "crashed" in Vegas? The other vehicle was found at fault. And even if the driverless vehicle was at fault, there is no chance one crash will discredit the technology. As I pointed out, 40,000 people die in car wrecks every year. Driverless technology could hardly do worse. In fact, inept drivers are one reason why this technology is deemed necessary.

I'm definitely not a proponent of the technology. I'm clearly with you guys who feel like they will give up driving their cars when their cold, dead fingers are pried from the wheel.

But I think realistically, this technology is already being proven. You're welcome to think it is still many decades away. But billions of R&D dollars are already being spent. These folks aren't betting on their grandkids reaping the rewards of their investment. They are expecting a return in their lifetime. I'm not gonna bet against them.

For a young engineer interested in vehicles, it actually would be a great area to get in on the ground floor right now. JMO.

[The Boss]

I would think, at least for the majority of the balance of our lifetimes, we are safe with our cars.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Suppose we go back to the buggy whip, long beards, and oh The Amish are already STILL there.



Lutz the putz

[Old Goat Racer]

Originally Posted by The Boss

I would think, at least for the majority of the balance of our lifetimes, we are safe with our cars.

No doubt I am ! Just wonderin bout my 18 YO Grandson?

[Andre]

Bob Lutz... the same guy that stated unequivocally that "Retro doesnt sell"

[johnta1]

The same guy that killed Pontiac.

[tripower]

Originally Posted by Andre

Bob Lutz... the same guy that stated unequivocally that "Retro doesnt sell"

LOL Great point. I believe he can be quoted with that around the time the new retro Mustang came out and before the new retro Camaro and Charger debuted.

[GT182]

God help us all if there's driverless big rigs on the highways. And one other thing who with what is going to pay all the people put out of work because of this? If it happens I say we're all scrod.

[NBF823]

Originally Posted by Andre

Bob Lutz... the same guy that stated unequivocally that "Retro doesnt sell"

I'm not defending Lutz, more I think retro means the design men have no good new idea. Shoulda been; retro doesn't sell as well as an original good styling idea, but it sells better than a bad styling idea.

https://blog.caranddriver.com/warnin...-living-color/

There's many factors that affect car sales. Performance cars are just less popular, more frowned apon, and more costly to insure, but the population back in the 60s was less back then, so there were less potential buyers.

[mgarblik]

Not a big defender of Mr Lutz.... but he is a Marine and served our country in that capacity, he also made moves when with Pontiac to move the division back toward focused performance cars, the Solstice, new GTO, G8. He made plenty of mistakes too and has made some wacky predictions. But the world of self driving vehicles is absolutely here, like it or not. I had a chance to ride in one around Dayton as the launch to our new college program to repair these vehicles when they break down. My college was just awarded a $ 1,000,000 grant to develop repair procedures and methods for these vehicles over the next 5 years. They are coming, you can either live with them or possibly be run over by one! Will I ever own one? Hell no, unless it's given to me. I will be driving my 60's Pontiacs, thank you. Time will march forward.

[getmygoat]

The problem with all this autonomous hype is its relatively easy to get the first 80% of the use cases right. That final 20% will require 5X the resources it took to get the first 80%.

[U47]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Not a big defender of Mr Lutz.... but he is a Marine and served our country in that capacity, he also made moves when with Pontiac to move the division back toward focused performance cars, the Solstice, new GTO, G8. He made plenty of mistakes too and has made some wacky predictions. But the world of self driving vehicles is absolutely here, like it or not. I had a chance to ride in one around Dayton as the launch to our new college program to repair these vehicles when they break down. My college was just awarded a $ 1,000,000 grant to develop repair procedures and methods for these vehicles over the next 5 years. They are coming, you can either live with them or possibly be run over by one! Will I ever own one? Hell no, unless it's given to me. I will be driving my 60's Pontiacs, thank you. Time will march forward.

Well if you read his prediction he says driver operated cars will be banned. ( would they be prepared for riots ? ) Also Lutz's only comparison was how fast it was when cars first appeared that the horse went away and that is a true fact. We know in those times evolution of technical contraptions took a lot longer than they do today and the horse was displaced quickly, not only on the roads but the tractor changed farming with real horsepower to mechanical power very quickly.
On the other hand, the auto industry and it's lobby, the unions, the aftermarket parts business, all the collectors and related car business all are not going to go down very easy. I expect some civil liberties law firm will get involved. Political pressure for the millions in the auto industry that would be out of work. The fact that the nations GDP is effected by the whole auto industry in general means there would have to be a gradual change, otherwise it would plunge the economy into a death spiral.