[John V.]

What is the correct plating for the bolt and washer that installs kinda behind the front tire to attach the inner fender to the frame?

What size bolt is used?

From the '66 MPC, Gr. 8.155 shows '64/'65 uses Washer p/n 535114. Washer p/n is described as 21/64 ID x 1-17/64 OD x 3/16" thick. But plating is not indicated. The type of washer is also not indicated.

In a search of the '61 Pontiac MPC, I found a description of Washer p/n 535114 as a "Lockwasher" for fender skirt to frame. Was a split lockwasher used on the '64/'65 Tempest?

In Gr. 8.153, I don't see a bolt listed for the '64/'65 Tempest application. But for '65/'66 big Pontiac, it lists a Screw for fender skirt to body or frame, p/n 9777274. Not sure it is correct dimension for the '64 Tempest application.

I can't find any bolts/washers in my stash that would seem to be correct.

Can any body help?

[War eagle]

I found my originals so rusty but under the washer they seemed to be black phos. Any way the bolts are 5/16 course and have a self thread point, The head is depressed and is 1/2 drive. About 1 in long. The washer is also depressed in the center with internal star. The OD is about 1 3/16 to 1 1/4. To cold to r &r for a pic just now but that offset depressed flatwasher with the star teeth is hard to miss John.

[John V.]

W.E., thanks for the reply.

Still trying to find a pair of bolts/washers.

The one in the attached pix is not for sale but taken from a pristine survivor '61 Catalina 4 dr. hardtop.

Assuming the p/n was unchanged from '61 to '64 as indicated by the MPC, does this look like what you described?

[Dick Boneske]

I'm confused. There is a 3/8" bolt with depressed head and integral large washer that holds the fender to the frame. The body shims used between the fender and frame here are critical to alignment of the fender to the door and to the rocker panel.

There is a 5/16" depressed head bolt that holds the inner and outer fenders together forward of the larger bolt. This smaller bolt had no connection to the frame--it just holds and aligns the inner and outer fenders.

I spent many hours (several days) getting these fasteners and shims right to get the fender to door to rocker panel alignment as good as I could. By the time I was done with this, the washer and bolt head design were not high on my priority list.

[John V.]

Dick, my GTO is not here to look at so I'm going by what I recall looking at when I was asked if I had the bolts & washers.

Looking at the tire, peer into the wheelhouse rearward of the tire. You are looking at the inner fender from the wheel side (not the engine side).

As I recall from looking at it, there are 2 larger holes in the inner fender along the bottom, more or less side by side. IIRC, the forward most of these 2 holes is supposed to get a bolt that attaches the inner fender directly to the frame rail behind it.

At risk of further confusing things, I think the attached pic shows the hole in question where the subject bolt and washer is used. The hole at the lower rear of the opening is the bolt hole in question, I think.

Based on the threads in the frame, it is a 5/16" bolt as W.E. indicated. We tried a 3/8" bolt, didn't fit.

PS Dick, please check your PMs, I had another question for you.

[Dick Boneske]

Sorry, I misunderstood the OP. Here is the inner fender-to-frame bolt you're referring to. It is a 5/16" bolt with integral washer.

I also posted pictures of the two at the bottom of the fender, including the infamous 3/8" bolt that engages with the cage nut inside the frame that so often spins and requires surgery to fix.

I do not have a PM in my inbox from you, John.

[War eagle]

Dick has it right John. There are no shims behind the wheelhouse to frame on the bolt and washer. I don`t have the same bolt holding the bottom of the fender to the body(the famous bad guy). Mine used a 3/8 bolt with a floating attached concave flatwasher.
Just a note about door to fender and door to quarter. Dick`s looks great compared to mine. No collisions on my car but I have gaps that are larger both front and rear of door. The 3/16 to 1/4 gap will never happen. The ol girl was born with wider gaps. Could be a door skin from new........could be a hinge pillar/rocker attach problem or even Monday morning car.

[John V.]

Dick, it would help if I actually hit Send when I wrote it out this morning! Should have it now. Also should have the email I sent 12/19 unless they are going to junk?

[John V.]

W.E., I understand no shims. I've looked and I'm beginning to think those bolts were missing when I disassembled.

Since my LH fender had been replaced and based on a recent thread, the consensus was that my RH fender must also have been replaced since it did not have the slot for the rocker molding screw, no telling whether my inner fenders were original or not at the time I disassembled the car. So a previous disassembly/reassembly may have eliminated the original attaching bolts.

I have all sorts of fasteners that I bagged and tagged for the fenders including, I think, the bottom of fender bolts noted by you and Dick. But nothing in my bags suggesting they were for the inner fender to frame. So I'll need to find somebody that has a pair from a parts car or make do with hardware store bolts.

Can't say how my gaps would compare to yours or Dick's, but the hunt for these inner fender attaching bolts was triggered because the LH fender won't push in as far as we'd like for the rocker panel molding. The RH side is good, but on the LH side, not so much. The hope is that when the attaching bolt is installed it will help pull the fender in at least a tad to help keep the rocker molding from having to bow out at the end.

Whether that was how it was from the beginning or the alignment was upset by the fender bender that resulted in the fender replacement decades ago, I have no idea. But however it turns out, I will be happy to live with it.

[aceaceca]

Dick, is that rubber do-hickey an access hole for the clutch z -bar retention bolt. My 65 does not have one but is going to get one.

[Dick Boneske]

Originally Posted by aceaceca

Dick, is that rubber do-hickey an access hole for the clutch z -bar retention bolt. My 65 does not have one but is going to get one.

I don't know what you're referring to as a "rubber do-hickey." That oblong hole in the frame that shows through the larger hole in the inner fender is likely there for a reason, but I don't know what it's for. There is no rubber--it's all paint.

Getting to the Z-bar bolt on the top of the frame is a challenge. You can, however, loosen or remove the bolt this thread has been referring to and get at least a few inches of clearance for access to the Z-bar bolt.

[aceaceca]

Visual illusion. Now I see it as a hole in the frame.

[John V.]

Originally Posted by aceaceca

Visual illusion. Now I see it as a hole in the frame.

Ron, you had me going, haha! I was all set to start poring thru the Ames catalog for a rubber/plastic plug. Feeling pretty dumb now that Dick has 'splained it!

[Rich-Tripower]

That bolt that goes into the bottom of the fender and adjusts the fender and fender to door gap does not go into the frame, it goes into the cowl area of the body.

I don't think I have any bolts bolting the inner fenders to the frame. Not entirely sure the inner fenders we have even have a hole in that area, I'll have to look next time I'm at the shop. If there are holes and I do need to add these bolts, what is in the frame, some kind of j-nut?

[Dick Boneske]

Originally Posted by Rich-Tripower

That bolt that goes into the bottom of the fender and adjusts the fender and fender to door gap does not go into the frame, it goes into the cowl area of the body.

I don't think I have any bolts bolting the inner fenders to the frame. Not entirely sure the inner fenders we have even have a hole in that area, I'll have to look next time I'm at the shop. If there are holes and I do need to add these bolts, what is in the frame, some kind of j-nut?

You're right! The larger of the two bolts on the bottom of the fender screws into the cowl area--same cowl area that the door hinges bolt to, not the frame.

Seems strange that the inner front fenders bolt to the frame, which isn't consistent with the rest of the body parts, exhaust, & engine which are insulated from the frame by rubber mounts. Or are there other body parts that bolt to the frame directly without insulators? I can't think of any.

[John V.]

You guys are confusing me again. The fender attaching bolts are not what my question is about.

Dick posted a pic showing the bolt that attaches the inner fender to the frame. Rich, you are saying that you don't think you have a bolt and may not even have a hole for it in the inner fender. Would love for you to check this out. I believe the nut is a weld nut, same I think as used to bolt the core support to the frame. I'll need to recheck when I get to look at it again but it is not a j-nut by my recollection, it was welded as part of the frame assembly.

Dick are you questioning whether you should have installed that bolt or are you just wondering about the logic of why Pontiac chose to assemble it without an isolator? If the latter, I sure don't know. But mine is not to question why!!!! I'm only trying to duplicate the original assembly and as mentioned, hoping that this bolt will help take a bit of a bow out of the rocker molding on the driver side.

[War eagle]

There is only a hole in the frame to attach the shirt. No threads. The attaching screw has self threading feature similar to screw shown in grp. 8.977, point BT. Also notice the large hole in the skirt for attachment. This combined with the upset of the flat washer allows the skirt/fender and most of the front end to float or give. The washer bottoms on the frame tightly but not the skirt.

[John V.]

Originally Posted by War eagle

There is only a hole in the frame to attach the shirt. No threads. The attaching screw has self threading feature similar to screw shown in grp. 8.977, point BT. Also notice the large hole in the skirt for attachment. This combined with the upset of the flat washer allows the skirt/fender and most of the front end to float or give. The washer bottoms on the frame tightly but not the skirt.

W.E., thx for the further explanation. BTW, I also checked and discovered that there is no weld nut on my frame as I assumed. Just as you described, the self- tapping screw cut threads directly in the relatively thick side of the frame rail.

[Rich-Tripower]

Okay, I guess I'm just dumb. Our inner fenders do have the holes and there are bolts in the proper holes though they do not have the proper washers on them. Any idea where I could find the washers?

Also, I'll add, that I do know that Chevelles do not have this inner fender to frame bolt and I think I know why but just one more difference in brands of a-bodies.

[War eagle]

Originally Posted by John V.

W.E., thanks for the reply.

Still trying to find a pair of bolts/washers.

The one in the attached pix is not for sale but taken from a pristine survivor '61 Catalina 4 dr. hardtop.

Assuming the p/n was unchanged from '61 to '64 as indicated by the MPC, does this look like what you described?

The washer-shirt to frame, is found in grp 8.155 and is part number 535114 and indicated for the 64-65. Have you tried the parts search at your local chev dealer? As John found, the same washer was used in 1960-64 on the big Pontiac. This could be an Olds number, don`t know but the prefix 53----- usually comes up. If worse comes to worse, that offset washer could be made even without the internal washer and a star washer subed.