About Us

J.C.you · 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wreckmastr

lol, car is brand new, for sale and also ready to make a pass....I have no control over the latter.

if you want to be competitive in a heads up class this car/combo would get you there

Stan Weiss · 03-01-2018, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Yes we need a new block..... an offset bore, short deck block which should sell for $1495 and use all standard Pontiac hardware that one has already in their possession, be capable of handling 5k horsepower and come with free installation..... and guys would still gripe about it and not purchase one.

Looks good to me for N/A also. 9.2" deck Block. 4.0625" bore, 2.7" stroke, 6.625" rod, 1.2" Piston Comp height, and piston .009" in the hole. 280 ci and should turn 11,500 RPM with a 375 CFM "E" head

Stan

cgeise · 03-01-2018, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragncar

What I am looking for is for people to openly talk about what it takes for Pontiacs to make more power than they do now and be reliable. Simple discussion.

Two Turbos

GTOGEORGE · 03-01-2018, 03:27 PM

More money and more people doing it!

GTO George

cgeise · 03-01-2018, 03:33 PM

Been reading this thread and here is my 2 cents . First of all many of the suggestions here to " make it better" are kind of splitting hairs, by that I mean the power improvements would be quite small. Less face facts, the engine as it was designed has architectural limitations for what we are talking about here. Can they be worked around , sure to a point and that point is usually one of two things, your wallet or your patient's. there is a reason 8 out of 10 guys at the higher level run Chev--proven performance, price and availability. Can A PONTIAC be made to perform on par with many of these - sure, but at what cost and how long will it take. There is way more to the story but we/ you need to remember it is a niche hobby and except for the very few willing to put cubic dollars into it, I feel it has pretty much reached a level that will not be substantially improved apron.

Dragncar · 03-01-2018, 04:32 PM

No one ever said this is not like the "Last Act of Defiance". Something like that old poster I used to have on my wall as a kid with the rat giving the eagle the bird as he is swooping down to grab him in his talons.
Chevy is the enemy, not your friend.

cgeise · 03-01-2018, 07:03 PM

Or the frog with his hands around the birds neck -- as the bird try's to swallow him. I would have loved to stay Pontiac and continue to duel it out with the Chevy's but " our sport and its supplier's" let me down over and over - form actual product supply to the innovation needed to improve. Hell if there was a " standard" configuration out there that would consistently deliver 1050 to 1100 hp at a reasonable price with good durability I think , or hope it would be a hit-- therefor more guys in the sport and more willing to advance the program --.But the Brand is drawing from a very small gene pool and its getting smaller every day. good luck.

v869tr6 · 03-01-2018, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgeise

Two Turbos

Even one turbo will do a pretty good job, but two will do it better!

Half-Inch Stud · 03-01-2018, 11:23 PM

Where it's at!

got two twin turbos and a microphoone

Dragncar · 03-02-2018, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgeise

Or the frog with his hands around the birds neck -- as the bird try's to swallow him. I would have loved to stay Pontiac and continue to duel it out with the Chevy's but " our sport and its supplier's" let me down over and over - form actual product supply to the innovation needed to improve. Hell if there was a " standard" configuration out there that would consistently deliver 1050 to 1100 hp at a reasonable price with good durability I think , or hope it would be a hit-- therefor more guys in the sport and more willing to advance the program --.But the Brand is drawing from a very small gene pool and its getting smaller every day. good luck.

The capability to make a repeatable 1050-1100HP "CNC heads and intake" package is there. But which head/intake to do it might be a stumbling block with all the prejudices going on. Head like Pro Port/Tiger or maybe Super Wedge would be a good candidates. But the E Pro Port might be the way to do it just because they are more "generic" without the "who's camp" you are in.
To make it more affordable billet cranks are out and very high RPMs probably too.
But they way I understand it the very "good" CNC machines are expensive themselves as is the hourly rate to get thing machined on them. The little lines made by lesser CNC machines take more man hours to finish the product.
But it all could happen with money and desire. At least this part of it does not require and new never been made parts or ideas.

slowbird · 03-02-2018, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgeise

Or the frog with his hands around the birds neck -- as the bird try's to swallow him. I would have loved to stay Pontiac and continue to duel it out with the Chevy's but " our sport and its supplier's" let me down over and over - form actual product supply to the innovation needed to improve. Hell if there was a " standard" configuration out there that would consistently deliver 1050 to 1100 hp at a reasonable price with good durability I think , or hope it would be a hit-- therefor more guys in the sport and more willing to advance the program --.But the Brand is drawing from a very small gene pool and its getting smaller every day. good luck.

The intakes and heads exists, problem is nothing will consistently make a certain power level unless the same builder is doing the builds. The same head/intake package can be given to multiple different builders and there will most likely be a big swing in power from the worst to the best. Plus a lot of times the customers handcuff the builders so the results will very based on the customer as well.

chiefbigb · 03-02-2018, 05:12 PM

What are your credentials and accomplishments in the engine development field.

chiefbigb · 03-02-2018, 05:13 PM

Asking drancar

GTOGEORGE · 03-02-2018, 05:16 PM

GTO George

Scott Roberts · 03-02-2018, 05:40 PM

Where are the Buick and olds. In relation to the Pontiac these days?

Stan Weiss · 03-02-2018, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragncar

The capability to make a repeatable 1050-1100HP "CNC heads and intake" package is there. But which head/intake to do it might be a stumbling block with all the prejudices going on. Head like Pro Port/Tiger or maybe Super Wedge would be a good candidates. But the E Pro Port might be the way to do it just because they are more "generic" without the "who's camp" you are in.
To make it more affordable billet cranks are out and very high RPMs probably too.
But they way I understand it the very "good" CNC machines are expensive themselves as is the hourly rate to get thing machined on them. The little lines made by lesser CNC machines take more man hours to finish the product.
But it all could happen with money and desire. At least this part of it does not require and new never been made parts or ideas.

I guess I must heard wrong, since I heard that Edelbrock had stopped making the Pontiac Pro Port.

Stan

Dragncar · 03-02-2018, 05:47 PM

Or you could look at it this way. What is the most NA power made by each different head ? I will throw in a few numbers that are just off the top of my head. These are by no means the end all. If you want to post a more accurate number feel free to do so.
E head, 1200HP at best, some say right around 1170ish shown.
Tiger, just over 1300 with lots of work.
What is the top Tiger head that has not have had the valves moved around a ton ? What are they capable of in closer to stock form ?
High Port, not sure. 1160-80HP maybe ? I do think it is interesting that they have to date not shown significantly more power than the old E head. They were kept away from some porters in the past. Think that is starting to go away, I hope. The 462cfm set JM has done with Mikes old big time worked over BOP will be very interesting.
Pro Port, I do not have a good number to put up. What is it ? I think someone on YB made 1000HP on pump gas and is the best PG engine ever for a Pontiac. Can not remember the number JM had, but it was very high. All his stuff is.

Warp, pretty sure there are NA combos approaching 1200 HP. What is the top number ?. I know they did make 900 on a early engine, think it was a blower engine that was dynoed with no blower and a carb adapted to blower intake. Jeff told me about it a long time ago. 9-1 CR.
You have the one off MR RAV with no pushrods in port that was dynoed at around 1300HP but not raced yet.
The DCI RAVs are showing something. Hear of 1200HP NA race combos.
What is the top NA CV-1 ? 1150 ?
The H&M non pushrod RAV has shown the most HP in a blown application. Know what it did to a very tough race block. Estimated 3500HP before she let go. The new engine with LSM billet block should be able to let it eat and see what that does. Some 1200-1300+ NA builds coming up. Have proven Tiger style shaft rockers too. I thinks its the future but it needs to happen .
Think its all saying its about bore space for bigger numbers. We will be able to get more than we have now but in the end, limits will be about bore spacing.
A true canted valve head, ex and intakes with separate intake and ex runners would probably get us the farthest but what class could you race it in ?
Multi cam 4 valve would be the ultimate as far as making power with limited bore space. 4 valve changes everything. Pontiac has tried more than 2 valves and OHC before. Olds even built a 4 valve 455.
One thing, Mikes heads making what they did with the same steel valve guides they had from Edelbrock says a lot. Extremely good for what they were.

Dragncar · 03-02-2018, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

I guess I must heard wrong, since I heard that Edelbrock had stopped making the Pontiac Pro Port.

Stan

Butler still has them on their site. I hear of a "gift" Vic made to Butlers before he died. Maybe it was the last remaining ones. Or something else ? I know he was very fond of the Butlers.