[PurelyGTO68]

Anyone else struggle with this?
I know the door latches were installed when the body was painted so the exposed latch area would be body color along with the hardware......but I am having a real hard time with this. I know it is correct for these items to be painted but I really do NOT like this look....when I see stuff like that it just looks lazy to me.

I am getting ready for paint. Do I just need to get over it and paint the darn things and then look away every time I open the doors?

What have you guys done with your restorations? At the moment I am thinking it's my car and I should build it like I want it and the next owner can worry about it if it bothers him/her. Is this a mistake?

[gto4evr]

ah, young grasshopper...you're starting to see the light. It's your car, do it as it makes YOU happy. I can guarantee that no one at the car shows is checking our door latch for paint overspray. First off, the doors are never open there anyways so who are you worried about? Of course, there just might be the purist that might be standing there with a judgmental frown as he sees you exit the vehicle as he whispers into his hidden mic that they need to put you on 'the list' and you won't be invited to next year's "our cars are perfect right down to the original crumbled cigarette pack that the line worker tossed inside my quarter panel as documented from the restoration" gathering.

Duplicating originality to that level is great for the guys that like that and more power to them because they do their cars to impress others that feel the same way as themselves, but I will not be painting over-spray onto the underside of the hood over the black because I think that looks like crap so why would I mess up all the work I did making the underside nice to begin with just to make someone else happy? Are these same purists happy with as delivered rust all over the bare metal parts? They draw the line there to changing "as delivered original" to over restored better than factory as well, so all you're doing is making your door look better than as factory delivered. I'm sure Pontiac would have done it differently if they weren't pumping cars out on an assembly line asap.

Well, that's my 2 cents anyways! To each their own and always remember that for keeping sanity in this car hobby and remember to drive the damn things!

[PurelyGTO68]

Thanks for the reply. Trying not to overthink things. A little over restored is okay in my book. . Good chance this car will get judged at some point but I am okay with losing a few points just as long as I don't have to look at paint on the latches.

Not doing the under spray on the hood either....so at least I will be consistent.

Don't like bare iron left to rust either.....won't be any of that on this car if I can help it.

I value do value authenticity though....within reason. I also value enjoying the car and not being a slave to minute details.....especially the types of things that could be easily changed later if so desired.

[dataway]

I was headed down that rabbit hole for a while then I realistically considered the cost-benefit analysis. In my case I have a nice original 68 GTO ...but it's a hardtop, auto, verdora green, non-RA, common option vehicle that probably would not sell for more than $40K if it was a 10,000 mile survivor ... so, I realized it was pointless to go crazy with correctness beyond what gave me jolly's to do, because most likely no one else would care, and it would certainly never make any real difference in price.
Nice, stock, reasonably correct yes ... makes a difference, Concours correct on a common GTO, a waste of time and money unless YOU get real enjoyment out of that part of the restoration. Which I do ... in most cases, until it becomes a real pain that is just slowing down my project.
If it's a rare model, an RA car ... something like that ... might be worth it both in time, money and enjoyment .... but in my case, I have about the most common 68 GTO made.

[PurelyGTO68]

So....in my case we are talking about a convertible, 4 speed, Ram Air II Verdoro car. What would you do? Paint it?

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[Half-Inch Stud]

Good question.

Door latches are so reliable that.....paint em.
Door Hinges not as reliable and i agonized over the bolts getting paintd over.

I'm prefering the painted hinge HW look, and just okay with rhe latch & receiver paint over look.

Is up to you huh.

[68ragtop]

I have been battling with these same type questions as I finish all these same type of details.
Here's where I have found myself: I want my car to look & present itself correctly. I am using as many original parts as I can & trying to install many of them in the correct way with the correct paints. But, some of the things that really bug me I am & have already changed. They are the details that would hurt in a concours competition, but Once I decided not to follow that type of restoration, it made it easier to continue and deviate from original where I saw fit. For me, its been things like no over spray on the floor pans or under hood, over restored & over painted chassis parts, etc. I am installing my door latches & strikes clean, with no overspray. I just like that clean look. should still look good just not "correct"

But I still struggle with what way to go with things. Today I was deciding wether to paint the front sway bar chassis black, or natural steel. I have seen them both ways & don't know what I like better. Leaning towards natural steel though

I also added a 70 rear sway bar. Looks completely correct, but of course wasn't even available on our cars. So, I feel your pain, but unless your car is going to be completely correct, I would't be afraid to change things that really bug you.


Ironically I did paint over my hinge bolts. Once I had all the panels fitting perfect, I removed the hinge pins & left the halves installed & painted them. Top pins have to be installed upside down with this method however.....

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by 68ragtop

I have been battling with these same type questions as I finish all these same type of details.
Here's where I have found myself: I want my car to look & present itself correctly. I am using as many original parts as I can & trying to install many of them in the correct way with the correct paints. But, some of the things that really bug me I am & have already changed. They are the details that would hurt in a concours competition, but Once I decided not to follow that type of restoration, it made it easier to continue and deviate from original where I saw fit. For me, its been things like no over spray on the floor pans or under hood, over restored & over painted chassis parts, etc. I am installing my door latches & strikes clean, with no overspray. I just like that clean look. should still look good just not "correct"

But I still struggle with what way to go with things. Today I was deciding wether to paint the front sway bar chassis black, or natural steel. I have seen them both ways & don't know what I like better. Leaning towards natural steel though

I also added a 70 rear sway bar. Looks completely correct, but of course wasn't even available on our cars. So, I feel your pain, but unless your car is going to be completely correct, I would't be afraid to change things that really bug you.


Ironically I did paint over my hinge bolts. Once I had all the panels fitting perfect, I removed the hinge pins & left the halves installed & painted them. Top pins have to be installed upside down with this method however.....

Sounds like a car that I would be proud to own and would have no issues with how the various items are finished.

My take on the suspension components is they were likely installed bare or natural.....some items would appear darker than others due to the different manufacturing process. Then, most of those items were painted chassis black after they were fitted to the frame. Here is a page from the 69 assembly manual that shows where the black paint was supposed to be applied. Disk brake cars were a little different than drum models. I presume the 68 models received similar treatment.

The question is from what direction the black paint was applied. It looks like the paint was only on the lower half of the rear suspension and the upper portion remained natural finish. I presume the front suspension would done in a similar manner. In a month or two, I am going to try and schedule a visit to see a unrestored 68 GTO and might be able to determine how the front suspension components we're finished.

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[Greg Reid]

Maybe thinking of it this way will help....Door latches are ugly things and unpainted they stand out noticeably, so paint it to camouflage it.
Or...just remove them so they'll be the way you want them, unpainted.

[PurelyGTO68]

The car won't ever be 100% original again since the original engine and transmission are M.I.A.
It will get a 4 bolt SR block cast in Dec 1969. It was part of the extra parts that came with the car when I purchased it 30 years ago. M21 trans is date code correct but the partial VIN does not match. ZL axle is original though.

The car had a hood tach when I bought it but the hole was not clean stamped and the PHS does not show a tach so it was added later. Previous owner said the hood tach was installed by the dealer but didn't have any paperwork to give me. I don't want to drive a car with 4:33 gears and NOT have a tach so it will remain on the car.

I will duplicate the over spray on the under body....mostly due to how I am going to paint the car. Will probably paint the car with the doors attached like the factory did because I have a paint gun that sprays in all positions and the pattern is easily adjustable in shape and size so it will be easy to paint the hinge area.

Don't plan on any over spray under the hood since it will be laying flat when I paint it. If I was hanging the hood like the factory did then I might replicate the over spray. Will likely paint the decklid off the car just to make it easier to spray the rear of the car. The decklid is super easy to install and align on a convertible so the chances of messing up the painted finish is minimal.

I suppose the trunk latch was painted also....I think I remember seeing paint on that thing.

Still leaning towards not painting the latches and hardware. Hinges and hardware will be painted....always liked that look.

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[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

Maybe thinking of it this way will help....Door latches are ugly things and unpainted they stand out noticeably, so paint it to camouflage it.
Or...just remove them so they'll be the way you want them, unpainted.

That reminds me of a funny story. Several years ago when I was restoring my father-in-law's 1961 Bubbletop, I gave my wife the striker blocks to clean them up for reassembly. In those years, the striker blocks were smooth cast aluminum finish. I got involved with adjusting the quarter windows and forgot to check on my wife's progress. She eventually brought me the striker blocks and they were polished like chrome.

I got a good laugh when I saw those things and we decided to leave them that way. Still smile when I open the doors on that car and see those things.

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[68ragtop]

I restored a 1977 chevy monza spyder about 10 years ago. It was a one owner 45K mile car & I had been looked for many years before finding it. I had one in high school, so it was one of those memory lane cars & I bought it for no other reason. 99% of people looked past them in the day & they were built on GM's disposable economy car platform. When I restored it I ended up doing a complete rotisserie just like the GTO is getting. What was kind of interesting about that restoration is, there were no books, or even much for opinions on how it should be put together. So for the most part I just winged it to make it look like it could have been when it was new, But yes......I over restored it. Turned out to be a neat car, although a horrible investment. but it wasn't about the money & there was something cool about it being a car you just never see anymore. Not one person has ever asked why a part was painted or installed a specific way. Basically because very few knew & most didn't care. However I did get a lot of "you never see those anymore" & yes a couple of "why would anybody restore one of those cars"

But, with our Pontiacs I really like the look of details & making each part look like it was individually taken care of. I do personally like the detailed look of an unpainted latch & striker, But I would loathe the look of an unpainted door hinge. But they are the same in function, are they not? So I have a double standard & could quite possibly argue with myself If we could't could't talk about these things & we all had the exact & identical taste in these restorations they would be no fun at all........

I guess in the end If a GTO is restored well, it Looks perfect to a person who doesn't really follow the cars like we do & yet its not too far away from original where it will still get some respect from the purists, its a car well done. the line has then been walked but not stepped over. But still most importantly while walking those lines, the owner of the car can look at it everyday & be happy with what it is, Then the the car is truly prefect. My 68 will not being going up for sale anytime soon, so that last part is still most important, but I still really enjoy others opinions on the things I don't have a huge preference on & don't know a lot about. So my battle is still far from over

[68ragtop]

BTW, I still struggle with the look of black oxide bolts too,
but I don't care much for the look of hardware store fasteners either.....
Sometimes it's hard to decide & keep moving forward

[R68GTO]

For a rare car like that, paint the latches like the factory did. just make sure the you put a coat of cosmoline type oil on the latches before you install them, that way 90+% of the paint you put on won't stick and will come off after a few open/close cycles. That's what happened back in the day when it was built.

[AdamIsAdam]

I hate the way the hardware looks painted. Maybe it's from years of seeing bad paint jobs on them. So I have no paint on my bolts. I think the latch itself is mostly painted.

Funny thing is, for years I didn't know that the screws were originally painted.

So do what makes you happy. And yes, some of us are looking at you hardware

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by R68GTO

For a rare car like that, paint the latches like the factory did. just make sure the you put a coat of cosmoline type oil on the latches before you install them, that way 90+% of the paint you put on won't stick and will come off after a few open/close cycles. That's what happened back in the day when it was built.

That could work. Thanks for the suggestion. I really don't mind painted bolt and screw heads when appropriate. It's really the latch mechanism and striker bolt that I have a problem with. I saw a photo of a restored car where they painted the base of the striker bolt but left the pin unpainted. It looked okay....meaning it didn't bother me as much as if the whole striker was painted.

What I like about this idea is then I could adjust the latch and striker bolt and then paint the car after.....like the factory did. Will consider that option.
Thanks.

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[AdamIsAdam]

Was the striker bolt painted too? Yuk.

I installed a new striker when I got my car so it wasn't painted. I guess that was wrong, but it looks better.

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by AdamIsAdam

Was the striker bolt painted too? Yuk.

I installed a new striker when I got my car so it wasn't painted. I guess that was wrong, but it looks better.

Not totally positive but I think 1967 and earlier models received the latches and strikers after the car was painted. 1968 was the first year those items were painted.....I think.

[R68GTO]

Originally Posted by PurelyGTO68

Not totally positive but I think 1967 and earlier models received the latches and strikers after the car was painted. 1968 was the first year those items were painted.....I think.

That is correct. Starting in 68 the doors were hung and aligned prior to paint so all that would get the finish coat. The factory built cars to sell, not to show. I agree those things look better not painted, but it was not important to GM what the car looked like with the doors shut.

[AdamIsAdam]

So what does a 64 door look like? All hardware is unpainted?