[TedRamAirII]

DO NOT take any car to any Jiffy Lube, Quicky Lube or Franchise type Auto Repair Shop. Last week they were flipping burgers, this week they are draining the life blood of your car, and who knows what cheapeast bulk oil they are putting in. Find a good independant garage and have them do a oil change with oil and filter that YOU provide. I use AC PF24 filters, but Baldwin B39 is godd filter. As for Fram, who knows? They build OE filters for a LOT of cars, Ford, GM Subaru, Honda Etc, but it all boils down to Specs. The filter they build for the OE will be different than the filter on the parts store shelf. I'm sure EVERY Filter manufacturer has had failures, and always will pay for damages caused by their filters, of course they are not going to pay for a failure not caused by them. It all boils down to the filter media used, and a Anti Drainback valve material, THAT dictates cost. The difference in a $5 filter and a $15 filter is the media used. They can only fold paper/synthetic fibers so may ways. The best is to use a Bypass oil filter system. I'm not going to get into it, research it yourself. JMO ; )

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

DO NOT take any car to any Jiffy Lube, Quicky Lube or Franchise type Auto Repair Shop. Last week they were flipping burgers, this week they are draining the life blood of your car, and who knows what cheapeast bulk oil they are putting in. Find a good independant garage and have them do a oil change with oil and filter that YOU provide. I use AC PF24 filters, but Baldwin B39 is godd filter. As for Fram, who knows? They build OE filters for a LOT of cars, Ford, GM Subaru, Honda Etc, but it all boils down to Specs. The filter they build for the OE will be different than the filter on the parts store shelf. I'm sure EVERY Filter manufacturer has had failures, and always will pay for damages caused by their filters, of course they are not going to pay for a failure not caused by them. It all boils down to the filter media used, and a Anti Drainback valve material, THAT dictates cost. The difference in a $5 filter and a $15 filter is the media used. They can only fold paper/synthetic fibers so may ways. The best is to use a Bypass oil filter system. I'm not going to get into it, research it yourself. JMO ; )

Very unclouded and unbiased as well as factual statement right here. Good post Ted.

[Overkillphil]

On this Forum alone there is plenty of experienced and talented members who have overwhelmingly had bad experiences with Fram oil filters. There’s no point in defending the indefensible here. Use what you want, it’s your engine and your money. If you have some allegiance or loyalty to Fram/Allied Signal that’s your business but it doesn’t pass the sniff test here.

As far as class action lawsuits, anyone who’s ever been a part of one knows it takes years and the individual “share” is typically pennies to a dollar or two and the only ones who make out are the Attorneys.

Next...

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

"Years ago Fram was a quality filter manufacturer. Now their standard filter (the radioactive-orange cans) is one of the worst out there. These filters are manufactured by Allied Signal, Inc. Please do not buy these filters. By boycotting it, we may be able to cause some change. I have personally had one if these filters fail and actually cause engine damage due to bits of paper and glue floating around in the engine. For some inside dirt on Fram filters, see this email from an Allied Signal production engineer."

Oil filter study: http://www.austincc.edu/wkibbe/oilfilterstudy.htm
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That's an excellent article with a whole lot of data in it.

To summarize briefly - it's looking at filters for the Ford 5.0 V8 - an OE part # FL1A.

The OE filter is 4.125" long and 3.25" in diameter. It has 64 cartridge pleats, 400 square inches of element surface area and has a stamped-steel, with bypass valve, end cap.

Compare that to the Fram PH8:

4.125" long, 3" diameter, 34 pleats, 193 square inches of element surface are and has a cardboard end cap with NO bypass valve.

There is no comparison between a Fram PH series filter and a quality oil filter.

[Sirrotica]

And if you want really clean oil for the long run, a by pass filter is 20 times more efficient than any full flow filter, bar none. The only reason oil needs frequent changing is because a full flow filter is so inefficient, solids that pass through the full flow media build up as the miles pile on, and start abrading the internally oiled surfaces inside of the engine. The only way to avoid this is to keep the solid buildup to a low percentage is to throw the contaminated oil away and start the cycle over.

The better strategy is to filter all the solids from the beginning and the smaller stuff can't build up it's concentration. All the oil gets filtered every 5 minutes to a very high quality through the separate dedicated by pass system. The filter will not restrict flow because none of the lubricating oil goes through the by pass portion of the system on the way to the internally lubed engine parts. The by pass system only filters oil, and returns it to the pan. The lubricating portion of the system stays as the engineers designed it.

Educate yourself to the attributes of a by pass system compared to a full flow system. Run your oil for years instead of 3000 miles and still have less engine wear by removing all of the solids from the oil, instead of just the larger solids. 5-10 micron solids create the majority of the engine wear and will pass through any full flow media no matter whose name is on the side of the can.

I run my oil for a minimum of 3 years in my diesel dually as well as my 05 LS2 GTO with full confidence running Frantz oil filters. The diesel has 265,000 miles on it and the GTO has 135,000 on it. Oil in both is 3+ years old with at least 35,000 miles on it.

It's shown that a Frantz by pass filter can take newly refined oil from the manufacturer, and remove solids better than the oil manufacturer does from brand new oil, standard or synthetic. By pass filters can be positioned so you can change the media from the top in under 5 minutes, leaving the oil in the engine, just changing the filter media.

http://www.frantzfilters.com/

[64speed]

You can buy AC Delco PF24 on Amazon for like $3.50. Why would you buy anything else?

[1968GTO421]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

"Years ago Fram was a quality filter manufacturer. Now their standard filter (the radioactive-orange cans) is one of the worst out there. These filters are manufactured by Allied Signal, Inc. Please do not buy these filters. By boycotting it, we may be able to cause some change. I have personally had one if these filters fail and actually cause engine damage due to bits of paper and glue floating around in the engine. For some inside dirt on Fram filters, see this email from an Allied Signal production engineer."

Oil filter study: http://www.austincc.edu/wkibbe/oilfilterstudy.htm


Not a recommendation but a fwiw tid bit, I've been told that the Fram high performance filters are different than their 'regular' filter. Example the Fram HP-2 'racing' filter.

.


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Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

AC PF24 for me, no psi drop, never seen any flow issues, and no collapsing. If you can't find those, NAPA/Wix.

.

Thanks, Steve, interesting reading.
AC PF24 sounds good to me, HWYSTR455.

[PunchT37]

Originally Posted by 1968GTO421

Thanks, Steve, interesting reading.
AC PF24 sounds good to me, HWYSTR455.

Course, the AC filters have gone down in quality lately. They now look like a run of the mill cheap filter with the blue paint and stickers. Don`t believe that? Find an old one and go get a new one. You`ll see.

[Bobalong]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

Picture is worth a thousand words...

And there's the proof

[locomotivebreath]

When did the AC’s start going downhill ? I have a box of them that’s at least 10 years old .

[PunchT37]

I was working at a large chevy dealer till 2008. I started to notice some of the part numbers that fit the older apps were the light cheap ones. Then later the rest. I have a 5.3l truck. I use the PF61. They were the thicker ones while I was there. Now, they have gone cheaper like the rest.

As stated above, if you have an older one, go buy a new one. You`ll see the difference.

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

Picture is worth a thousand words...

It sure does




I would like to see someone argue that Bill Miller doesn't know what he is doing.

[PunchT37]

The fram race filter is another animal than what the average Joe buys at Autozone. As you can see, I go Wix...

[dhcarguy]

Originally Posted by buckeye23us

I have a '64 GTO that has a '67 pontiac GTO 400 ci. engine with '66 tri-power set up. I have always changed my own oil in my garage, but getting up in years and will take it to a Jiffy lube or Quick lube for my oil change now. I use Castrol GTX ultra clean oil and a PH25 Fram filter. My question is I was told Fram filters are not that good now so I want to take my own oil and filter . The cross- check of filters say I can use a Purolator PL25288, although it is smaller in diameter, which works fine I'm not sure the seals are the same. What filter do I need for this application? any input would be greatly appreciat
THANKS
Frank

If your near SE.Pa. , 18974. I'll change it for you.

Dave

[SRR]

The fram is from 1994...proving they were crap even then and the AC Delco is an older USA made one...don't know about the current ones, I'll try to get one to cut up.

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

WIX, the gold standard. PERIOD

[SRR]

WIX and NAPA are the same filter. The new WIX filters are China made if I'm not mistaken. I cut open used filters also and the only one I have seen coming apart was a Fram...the pleats had split open.

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

The new WIX filters are China made if I'm not mistake

I'll check into that on my next purchase, if so, sad state of affairs.
NAPA GOLD are Wix with a prefix,
regular NAPA I have no idea whats in the box.

I see Ford/Motorcraft has expanded into all brands with their new line "OMNICRAFT".

[The Champ]

Regular NAPA are Wix "Protect" line filters. Still a decent filter, but a "B" line - not as good as the main line. We handle both lines from Wix.

[HWYSTR455]

I'm down to my last couple of PF24s from when I bought out all Rock Auto had which was probably like 10-12 years ago. But, I do know at one point they did have some that were made in mexico, and as I recall, they are stamped 'made in mexico'. I heard they were substandard, but I have yet to see one cut open. I also understand that they don't source them from that manufacturer anymore, due to whatever reason.

I cut open all my filters, and have never seen a collapse in any that I have used from my batch. I will be buying some here soon, and before I install one, I will cut it open and see if they're the original design.

If you're concerned about the AC Delcos, the next choice is easy, NAPA Gold.

.