[ponchjoe]

Originally Posted by Sun Tuned

It's missing it's ass off...

Why?

In addition to the knock.

Are we sure nothing is bent on that reluctor wheel???

ST, you and I are thinking the same way on this, this seems like ignition to me as well. Watching the heater hose bounce is a big indicator.

[abefromen]

Strangely similar to the noise my old .060 over 389 used to make.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAGp6IdSTl4

In my case it turned out to be a piston issue.

[abefromen]

Originally Posted by abefromen

Strangely similar to the noise my old .060 over 389 used to make.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAGp6IdSTl4

In my case it turned out to be a piston issue.

I win! I win!

[Sun Tuned]

Firing order I bet is correct 18436572, but has anyone checked to see if they went in the right direction??

Sure looks shaky on that video.

[69 Limelight]

I don't see how what I'm about to submit could possibly be because it was gone over by builder and went through dyno cell but, is there any possibility that the cam is ground with a 7-4 swap and therefore the firing order would be 18736542? The cam I currently have is a 7-4 swap and if I hadn't asked when I ordered it from cam company I wouldn't have known. No where on cam card or paper work does it say such.

Back on posts 719, 720 & 730 the posters are confident it's spark knock and proper timing would get rid of knock.

At this point seems like everything has been checked and something's double and triple checked as well as a lot of parts replaced and money thrown at it by owner and not much left so I'm throwing it out there. 18436572 firing order when it should be 18736542 would certainly make it shake and run rough like it does.

[torqhead]

Originally Posted by 69 Limelight

I don't see how what I'm about to submit could possibly be because it was gone over by builder and went through dyno cell but, is there any possibility that the cam is ground with a 7-4 swap and therefore the firing order would be 18736542? The cam I currently have is a 7-4 swap and if I hadn't asked when I ordered it from cam company I wouldn't have known. No where on cam card or paper work does it say such.

Back on posts 719, 720 & 730 the posters are confident it's spark knock and proper timing would get rid of knock.

At this point seems like everything has been checked and something's double and triple checked as well as a lot of parts replaced and money thrown at it by owner and not much left so I'm throwing it out there. 18436572 firing order when it should be 18736542 would certainly make it shake and run rough like it does.

I thought of this earlier in the string, but I would think the builder would have that on the build sheet and assumed it would have been brought up by now. Anyway at this point, good to bring up everything!!! Reminds me of a pontiac motor I helped someone with recently it was popping out the exhaust regularly. It had two plug wires swapped.

[Sun Tuned]

Not paragon base, stupid spell check, I meant "Paraffin base"

[Sun Tuned]

My guess on the other is that the bushing in original msd has crapped the bed and a bunch of that debris went through the bearings and the oil filter mostly through the bearings. That's what I would say happened first.

Bottom bushing should not have trashed itself that fast.

I saw that deal here not but 6 months ago on a friends 455.

[Va68goat]

Scott Stoneburg,

I had Scorpion aluminum rockers at the time of the build but we switched to 1.65 Crower rockers. There were some marks on the old rockers but most likely it was from a tool not from rubbing. Paul set up the rockers and I know he would have verified if the rockers were rubbing or not. Just to be safe, we went ahead and switched them out. Paul suggested the thicker gaskets and we've verified that nothing is touching the valve cover. As for being able to hear the knocking noise on the dyno...I think I should stay off that topic because I've been told two different things. I have my thoughts.

Baron Von Zeppelin,
Thanks for the information. I hope that I don't ever have to have this motor leave Virginia again but that information is appreciated.

Region Warrior,
I'm pretty new to cars but with the damage to the distributor bushing located and repaired but the exact knocking noise is still present, it could be that this is not a part failure issue (Distributor bushing). It's possible that the distributor bushing is the result of something that was missed when the motor was built and when it was torn down. I'm pretty confident that we're close to finding out the real problem. These are the witness marks that were located on the oil pump shaft. We switched out the oil pump and the shaft and the knocking noise was still present. Thats why I don't think this is a timing or ignition issue or a part failure of the distributor bushing. Of course I'm new to cars but I'm just looking at the totality of the circumstances. Believe me...I hope it's something stupid but at point it's just hard to say. I know one thing...me and my friends are spending a lot of time diagnosing a problem.

ponchjoe,
I don't think that has been checked but we'll look at it.

[Va68goat]

HWYSTR455,
Yes, Paul had me send another distributor gear when the distributor bushing was discovered. Since the noise is still present after it was repaired, I think it's a little safer to assume that the distributor bushing is the result of a greater problem and was not a part failure as it was described. I know it's not 100% certain but it makes sense. Though it's a rare problem, it looks like a possibility and could have been missed when the motor was sent back to Arizona. If we switch the distributor and the knocking noise is still present, then it's more likely that it was missed. I don't want to post pictures of the plugs that I took yesterday because I think it's just going to distract away from the real problem. I sent the pictures to Jeff, you and a few of the guys that have helped me. If the motor is missing and the plugs are showing lean, that will get addressed when the knocking noise is eliminated. The more diagnosing and letting that motor run without fixing the problem, the more apt that the bearings and piston rings will get damaged again. We have plenty of time to get the timing right and the idle. I think we're close!!!!

[aceaceca]

I have followed this thread for some time. It just dawned on me you could have an idle circuit that is dead. My AFB four barrel car developed a knock at idle out of the blue. I was stunned as the engine had been fine for a long time. The knock was loud enough to be very disconcerting. After much fiddling I determined that one circuit of the carb was not functioning. You know this when a mixture screw does nothing. I swapped a different carb on there and presto, the knock was gone. To be frank, I was bloody amazed. After all these years you think you have been there and seen everything related to rogue engine problems. Not so. Keep on learning.

Another give away to non functioning or way too lean idle mixture is that you have to turn the idle speed screw way in to keep the thing running. To such a point that the venturies start to drip fuel to run the engine. When you see the dripping venturies you think the floats are too high or the needle and seat is not working. When you eliminate that probable cause, you are back to non functioning idle circuits or ones that are too lean for the engine combo. Been there done that on my new tripower set up. Just drilled the air feed and fuel feed locations on the idle circuit but have not lit it off yet.

You also need to be sure your throttle linkage has enough travel to enable the butterflies to fully close. If you do not, the carb will stay on part throttle operation and not go onto idle circuit.

[Va68goat]

gtofreek,
The knocking is the same from day one as to now. The original gas was literally 30 minutes old when I put it in the tank at the shop that did the electrical work. The heads got a clean bill of health when I spent the $170 to have them inspected as you suggested. You spoke to the guys and they said the heads looked great and complimented on your work. I know nothing about cars but I've been forced to learn a lot, thats for sure.

The knocking noise is masked at higher RPM. Feel free to post the video of my motor running on the dyno at idle from outside the booth. I can't hear any knocking when the video is taken from the booth and the motor is taken to 6,200 RPM. So if you're now saying that gas is the problem but the distributor bushing was damaged, the oil pump shaft has witness marks, we switched the oil pump and the shaft but the same noise is present, is gas really the problem? When a listening device is used, the signature of the knock is still present at the distributor! As I said before...I hope this is something that can be easily addressed but it at this point, none of this is making sense, even to a novice like me.

[gtofreek]

Engine does not have a 4-7 swap cam in it. If it did, it never would have made 540 HP and 570 ft. lbs. missing like it is now.

[gtofreek]

They call for .0045"-.0055" clearance. I originally set them up at .0045", It's been lightly honed now twice so it is now around .0047"-.0048" I can guarantee it's not piston slap. It would need .006"-.007" before you would really start to hear anything loud. Piston skirts still measured really good this last go round.

[Va68goat]

Scott Stoneburg,
Thats a good suggestion and thats on the list to do.

68 461 Bird,
I've thought about that and that is an option but there is not a chance in hell that I'm going walk away from the money I have sent Paul. I've been speaking with Jeff Koerner, so thats a good sign. I have been reaching out to Paul by text but he hasn't returned one. I even sent one last night explaining that we need to work this out away from the forum and that I don't think he's a bad guy. No response from him..So, when Paul chimes in and diverts the attention to everything other than himself...I won't let that happen. Fuel??? Really? It's possible that Paul made a mistake and than missed it again when he tore the motor down and I'm fine with that...lets work this out and figure the problem out. Blame it on fuel??... come on!

Sun Tuned,
Second opinion is an option but with the money I have spent to build the motor, diagnosing the motor and then recently spent to fix the motor yet the same problem exists, there is not a chance I'm walking away from that. I'm a pretty patient guy.. I'm focused on getting this motor fixed with or without Paul being involved but you would think he would want to be part of the solution.

64speed,
Thank you for the information. If it gets down to that, I will reach out. As I said earlier, at this point I'm not willing to walk away from the money that I have spent. I've been communicating with Jeff Koerner and he is actually trying to find someone that can come to my house and check the motor out. I'm appreciative of that and we'll see how that goes.

Paul...I'm sure you're reading this so if you're willing to fly to Virginia and take a look..my offer still stands that you can stay at my house. I won't pay for the ticket but you're welcome to stay here.

[HWYSTR455]

It's not difficult to run a line from a gas can to the fuel pump, and it would eliminate any question of the quality of fuel. You HAVE to eliminate ANY possible cause, it's trial and error, so you have to do ALL the steps to have countable results.

Think about it, you put the new tank in when this escapade first began, almost 2 years ago. THAT gas is still in there, and it has sat for that almost 2 years. Adding gas to bad gas makes all the gas in the tank bad. Did you drain the existing gas out of the tank before you added 'new' gas?

Do I think it's the gas? Not really, but I admit it is a possible cause that hasn't been addressed yet.

If any one of the potential causes that were corrected did not fix the issue doesn't mean that there wasn't any issue with the corrections, like the initial timing and/or the rockers. And don't dismiss that the knock could be caused by a combo if issues. It all needs to be right.

The plugs looked a little hot to me, and maybe a little rich. Maybe post a pic or two of those.

.

[Region Warrior]

My last post wasn't intended to mean bad fuel.
Was thinking to much fuel in 2 or more cylinders at idle.
Have you checked carb for debris?
Happened here years ago with a brand new 850 Demon carb.
Rear float suck open upon start up.
Was surprised how much metal debris was in both bowls and rear channels from factory!

[68 461 Bird]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

68 461 Bird,
I've thought about that and that is an option but there is not a chance in hell that I'm going walk away from the money I have sent Paul. I've been speaking with Jeff Koerner, so thats a good sign. I have been reaching out to Paul by text but he hasn't returned one. I even sent one last night explaining that we need to work this out away from the forum and that I don't think he's a bad guy. No response from him..So, when Paul chimes in and diverts the attention to everything other than himself...I won't let that happen. Fuel??? Really? It's possible that Paul made a mistake and than missed it again when he tore the motor down and I'm fine with that...lets work this out and figure the problem out. Blame it on fuel??... come on!

.

Another guy from AZ? You live in VA right? I don't get why after 2 years you are still hoping Paul is going to do something. I get you spent a lot of money with him, but at this point, you need to cut your losses and have another look inside to see where the knocking noise is coming from. Butler Performance is a days drive away, Paul Spotts is in PA and Nightmare Perforance is in CT. I just names a few Pontiac Engine builders I would use and 64speed has a guy he trusts too. I would be dying to drive that GTO by now and burning up the streets in VA .

On a positive note, there's a lot of great advice on this thread. I am hoping for the best for you!

[P@blo]

Originally Posted by 68 461 Bird

Another guy from AZ? You live in VA right? I don't get why after 2 years you are still hoping Paul is going to do something. I get you spent a lot of money with him, but at this point, you need to cut your losses and have another look inside to see where the knocking noise is coming from. Butler Performance is a days drive away, Paul Spotts is in PA and Nightmare Perforance is in CT. I just names a few Pontiac Engine builders I would use and 64speed has a guy he trusts too. I would be dying to drive that GTO by now and burning up the streets in VA .

On a positive note, there's a lot of great advice on this thread. I am hoping for the best for you!

I never can understand why people chime in with comments like this where they expect a person to process and decide like they themselves would. The OP wants resolution and either we are helping him along this path or we are are not.

Making things right is better for both parties involved actually.

[68 461 Bird]

Originally Posted by P@blo

I never can understand

Making things right is better for both parties involved actually.

Sorry you have a hard time understanding. I was only giving advice to the OP and he is the only party I cared about. It appears others agree if these other diagnostics don't work out, its time to dig into it.