[SIX8YAK]

Originally Posted by The Champ

Obviously I do - and have been since 2013 when I had my 462 built.

My engine builder recommended 20W50 and I originally used Brad Penn after the break in period. But I couldn't buy Brad Penn locally - I had to order it.

I had been running Mobil 1 0W40 (also has good ZDDP numbers) in my wife's Camaro with the 350 for about 10 years.

So I contacted Mobil Oil and asked them for their recommendations on oil for my 462 with a flat tappet cam - and the 15W50 is what they recommended.

I liked the idea that it was rated 15 at the low end - because I actually do drive my GTO in cold weather at times. The pour point being so low is an excellent benefit. As Pontiacs run hotter than Chevy's - I like the 50W on the top end.

Add the fact that I can go into most box stores and pickup a quart or a case at reasonable prices makes it a solid choice in my mind.

Awesome, I think I'm going to give it a whirl then. Thanks.

[Dick Boneske]

Meanwhile, I'll let you know how the SAE 30 works out, since I now have 12 quarts plus 3 extra---enough for both GTO's yearly oil changes.

It seems our high-zinc choices besides Brad Penn are Valvoline VR1 20W50, Mobil I 15W50, Schaffer's Racing Oil, some Shell oils, and a few others.

[rickyracer]

Rocker failures every race while road racing lead to synthetic oil use that got rockers to last for two/three races . A switch from 10w 30 to 15w 50 extended that to five /six races.
A move to Mobil 1 has eliminated the problem

[coonhunter70]

I for one hope that you stick around, I don't say much on here but read all the time and have always enjoyed your input. I have learned more from this forum than any other source since getting back into old cars a few years ago.

Originally Posted by Cliff R

For sure Oil and Oil Filter threads get all sorts of varied opinions.

Kind of related but a lot of my friends ride Harley Davidson touring bikes, and not just occasionally, they will ride tens of thousands of miles all over the Country to ralley's and such. Most of them are very particular about lubricants for them, and insist on very expensive Harley Davidson full synthetic, and a few of them use Amsoil dedicated HD V-Twin oils, and most also use Lucas stabilizer additives in all three places.

There is one of the group that is a cheap-ars so only uses the lowest price Walmart brand, and no additives whatsoever. He claims it's all "snake oil" and refuses to pay close to $100 for lubricants at service intervals.

Guess what? He had ZERO issues anyplace with his motorcycles, whether it be the engine, primary or transmission. He's went thru three touring bikes (trades them out between 60,000-80,000 miles) since I meet him back in 2003 and never had the first issue once engine, primary or transmission related.

I'm not quite convinced that his mentality is the right thing considering the cost of one of these motorcycles despite the perfect track record. I use dedicated primary oil, full synthetic HD engine oil with Lucas additives and Lucas 80W90 gear oil in the transmission. I also have zero issues anyplace, but my wallet is certainly lighter than my friends after service is completed.

I will also comment on this: "There is sometimes good info found if you can weed through the garbage. It's comical most of the time, but also sad that some very smart people now seldom waste their time posting here".

This problem has become considerably WORSE in recent years, and many very knowledgeable folks that I know REFUSE to be a part of this Forum for those reasons. I'm hanging in there despite finding myself being criticized and belittled by folks with less total direct experience with Pontiac engines as I spent on the crapper last week. For sure it's not much fun to argue with idiots, or to be chastised by folks who are trying to feed their ego's more than anything else.

I come on this (and other) Forum's to help folks out. For sure I don't know everything there is about all these topics, but at this point in my learning curve I certainly know what doesn't work well and how to build and tune one of these engines. I am DIRECTLY involved with some of the fastest Pure Stock and FAST Pontiac powered cars on this planet, and not just with carb stuff. I've done distributors, intakes, camshaft selections, transmissions and torque converters for a number of them as well.

Despite having to take some flack a little too often for my liking, I stick it out. Dave at SD told me years ago to quit wasting my time here, and recently I'm really beginning to understand why he doesn't post here. For now I'll keep putting some time in, but to be perfectly honest it'd really I don't like the way things are going on here and will be spending more time watching my 3 year old grand daughter and throwing sticks for my dogs instead as they are always glad to see me and appreciate my involvement in their lives........FWIW.......Cliff

[Sirrotica]

If you run an engine for more than 1/4 mile at a time (oval track, road race, autocross) or run an air cooled engine, there are benefits for using the best oil and filters you can afford. The oil in a drag car usually never gets to the point that it really thins out and get into the critical heat zone that vaporizes oils that can cause internally lubricated problems.

Most street cars have excellent cooling systems and keep the oil in a zone where it's not at critical heat levels.

On the other end of the spectrum I've seen air cooled engines run on asphalt during the summer right up to the governor speed, that will break down oils and will seize up in less than 8 hours after changing oil. One company I worked at I made a call to Pennzoil engineering about the air cooled engines seizing, The engineer told me to go with synthetic and that cured the engine seizing as soon as we switched. Synthetics will run further up the temp scale without breaking down without a doubt. If the oil is kept in the heat zone where it isn't vaporizing due to heat it lasts exponentially longer than if it reaches the critical heat zone.

If anyone remembers the Mobil 1 commercial where they put 2 oils in a frying pan to show how synthetic stacks up to conventional oil, it was well represented. Heat is one source that limits oil life immediately and quickly renders it unable to carry the oil wedge critical to engine longevity. The other is oil filtering which I'll not get into here, as anyone that has been here any length of time knows I'm passionate about by pass oil filters and their benefits.

Just to sum it up, oil not run in a critical heat zone lasts very well, synthetic will be able to run at a higher heat without losing lubricity. Use a filter that filters down to 2 microns, you can run oil for years safely. No full flow oil filter is capable of filtering down to 2 microns, they all let the oil slowly build abrasive particulate. Synthetic is a good basis if you want to run extended oil changes, but without a efficient oil filter you will still be limited to particulate contamination from a factory style oil filter. With a by pass filter and synthetic oil you easily/safely can run 30-50,000 miles 3-4 years on your oil between changes.

Keep it cool, and clean, and you can get a lot of miles from the oil and the engine. Maintaining the oil wedge, keeping oil clean and below the critical temperature, your mechanical problems should be nonexistent.

The internal clearances used by the builder as well as the usage of the car it's installed in, will dictate what viscosity is needed. No blanket statements about what Joe Blow runs in his combo translate directly to your own combo. There is no doubt that certain oils exceed others in specifications, but really keeping oil clean, and below the critical heat zone, most better oils will do the job asked of them. Heat and dirt ruin oils faster than any other cause.

[72LuxuryLeMansLa.]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

If you run an engine for more than 1/4 mile at a time (oval track, road race, autocross) or run an air cooled engine, there are benefits for using the best oil and filters you can afford. The oil in a drag car usually never gets to the point that it really thins out and get into the critical heat zone that vaporizes oils that can cause internally lubricated problems.

Most street cars have excellent cooling systems and keep the oil in a zone where it's not at critical heat levels.

On the other end of the spectrum I've seen air cooled engines run on asphalt during the summer right up to the governor speed, that will break down oils and will seize up in less than 8 hours after changing oil. One company I worked at I made a call to Pennzoil engineering about the air cooled engines seizing, The engineer told me to go with synthetic and that cured the engine seizing as soon as we switched. Synthetics will run further up the temp scale without breaking down without a doubt. If the oil is kept in the heat zone where it isn't vaporizing due to heat it lasts exponentially longer than if it reaches the critical heat zone.

If anyone remembers the Mobil 1 commercial where they put 2 oils in a frying pan to show how synthetic stacks up to conventional oil, it was well represented. Heat is one source that limits oil life immediately and quickly renders it unable to carry the oil wedge critical to engine longevity. The other is oil filtering which I'll not get into here, as anyone that has been here any length of time knows I'm passionate about by pass oil filters and their benefits.

Just to sum it up, oil not run in a critical heat zone lasts very well, synthetic will be able to run at a higher heat without losing lubricity. Use a filter that filters down to 2 microns, you can run oil for years safely. No full flow oil filter is capable of filtering down to 2 microns, they all let the oil slowly build abrasive particulate. Synthetic is a good basis if you want to run extended oil changes, but without a efficient oil filter you will still be limited to particulate contamination from a factory style oil filter. With a by pass filter and synthetic oil you easily/safely can run 30-50,000 miles 3-4 years on your oil between changes.

Keep it cool, and clean, and you can get a lot of miles from the oil and the engine. Maintaining the oil wedge, keeping oil clean and below the critical temperature, your mechanical problems should be nonexistent.

The internal clearances used by the builder as well as the usage of the car it's installed in, will dictate what viscosity is needed. No blanket statements about what Joe Blow runs in his combo translate directly to your own combo. There is no doubt that certain oils exceed others in specifications, but really keeping oil clean, and below the critical heat zone, most better oils will do the job asked of them. Heat and dirt ruin oils faster than any other cause.

Amen Brother! Can we get an amen from the congregation!

You said a mouth full!

[Cliff R]

"I for one hope that you stick around, I don't say much on here but read all the time and have always enjoyed your input"

For now I'm sticking around, but as always I tend to stay on topics that I have a lot of DIRECT experience with. For the most part it keeps me out of trouble, but still on occasion I've find myself getting some flack from someone with little to no experience at all on a subject, other than what they can google up.

The Internet for the most part can be an excellent tool to learn, but when you are copy/pasting information that you had nothing to do with, and haven't actually done it yourself, folks need to be smart enough to know that it's just second hand information and may not work out all that well for them if they use it.

I for one don't buy into all that, and much prefer to take information that I find and apply it, if it looks like something that might be helpful. So basically the learning process at some point does REQUIRE practical application to really know if it works well or not?......FWIW......Cliff

[glhs#116]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

"I for one hope that you stick around, I don't say much on here but read all the time and have always enjoyed your input"

For now I'm sticking around, but as always I tend to stay on topics that I have a lot of DIRECT experience with. For the most part it keeps me out of trouble, but still on occasion I've find myself getting some flack from someone with little to no experience at all on a subject, other than what they can google up.

The Internet for the most part can be an excellent tool to learn, but when you are copy/pasting information that you had nothing to do with, and haven't actually done it yourself, folks need to be smart enough to know that it's just second hand information and may not work out all that well for them if they use it.

I for one don't buy into all that, and much prefer to take information that I find and apply it, if it looks like something that might be helpful. So basically the learning process at some point does REQUIRE practical application to really know if it works well or not?......FWIW......Cliff

One of my favourite quotes on this subject, Cliff:

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is."

Sam

[My442]

I run Amsoil Z Rod 10w-30 in my 455.

[Cliff R]

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is."

Good one for sure Sam.

As it relates to this topic I've tested quite a few oil filters, and have found that most make the grade fine, but with some applications a shorter or smaller diameter filter is required due to headers or other reasons such as custom applications (transplanting a Pontiac engine into some other chassis, etc).

If one researches filters that will fit based on thread size/pitch and where the seal goes, you'll find quite a few filters from dozens of manufacturers that will screw onto a Pontiac oil filter housing.

To date I've had ZERO success with small diameter filters and have actually tried several that completely failed. Not sure why but tend to avoid them. Far as standard diameter filters NAPA, Delco, WIX, Purolator, and Baldwin have all worked fine. The only full size filter failure we've experienced is with a Fram, and I avoid those.

The best filter for one of these engines that we've found to date is the Baldwin B39. It's full diameter and a tad shorter than most, so with 67-69 FB's and Ventura's with Hedman 4 tube "D" port headers you'll have enough clearance for much easier filter replacements.

I also notice with the Baldwin that the manual oil pressure gauge responds much quicker than with any other filter we've tried and we see the highest oil pressures with them as well. Not sure what that means but zero failures and highest pressures with fastest gauge movements have me using them exclusively for these engines.

Far as engine oils are concerned, tough to go wrong with good quality oil, so sticking with better brands with a good track record is never a bad decision.

Good point made above about severe duty and air cooled stuff, and why I've ran the best oil we can buy plus Lucas oil supplement in all my motorcycle engines. With HD touring bikes you're quite likely to get caught out on a really hot/humid summer day stuck in stop and start traffic, so the more protection the better.....IMHO......Cliff

[ho428]

I run Brad Penn 10-40 Road Racing, Canton pan, screen windage, use a Fluidyne cooler and remote mounted WIX 51515R filter. About a 10 qt system, idle pressure will drop to about 20 after a race when everything is smoking hot.
3" main 433, Melling pump with 1/4" plate, 9/16 ball and shimmed spring, KRE heads, solid roller cam, Scorpion 1.65 rockers, restrictive pushrods, 6500 shift points.

[Chief of the 60's]

15w50 Mobil 1 here. Previously I used 20w50 Brad Penn. Both excellent oils.

[J.C.you]

I have been doing the prolong deal added to rotella for about 15 years and buy as a dealer for prolong. There are better oils out there for sure, but the rotella is cost effective and have beat my poncho stuff pretty hard. I am sure this has been posted before but this link might shatter a few myths:

http://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013...-test-ranking/

[Nicks67GTO]

I'm running 15/40 Brad Penn and a Napa 1049 filter since I have a healthy solid FT cam in my 433 autoX mill. Its not that im partial to Brad Penn, it's just what Paul Knippen (PaulK here) specs for it and he built it...so I listen. It seems to be holding up well. Just did my pre race season oil change last night in fact.

I think this oil debate is kind of useless without facts and instances of oil related failures or problems....so has anyone had any actual oil related failures with certain brands under normal driving conditions? The vast majority of the guys here don't race and if they do it's a few 1/4 mile blasts at test n tune so I don't think racing conditions apply here. I would be curious the see if there's a pattern like the Fram filter issues, or if this is just a bunch of debate for nothing. I'm guessing at this point, a good name brand oil/1049 napa filter is going to be good for just about everyone who doesn't need zddp. If you do, get the right oil or additive.

Didn't these cars come with straight 30 or 40wt back when they were new?

[ho428]

Originally Posted by Nicks67GTO

I think this oil debate is kind of useless without facts and instances of oil related failures or problems....so has anyone had any actual oil related failures with certain brands under normal driving conditions?

Not daily driving for sure, but I switched from VR1 to the Brad Penn when I kept experiencing starvation after long sustain RPM runs followed by heavy braking and turns, even though I'd gone to restrictive pushrods, opened the drain back holes and polished everything it appeared to still be a drain back issue.
The BP seems physically thinner and flows better at the same weight, since I switched I've not had anymore starvation/drain back issues.

[Sirrotica]

In my oval track engines I also had oil starvation/bearing problems problems with Valvoline 40W race oil, and switched to Pennzoil 40W racing oil back in the mid 70s. That ended the bearing problems as soon as I switched. Been using Pennzoil products since then.

I had been using Valvoline for 7 years previously and had some bearing failures here and there. It took me quite awhile to convince myself to switch brands. I finally did after an engine refresh, and never looked back. There are probably a bunch of people on here will disagree with my choice, but results speak for my choice.

Oil cleanliness from a better than factory design filter system is even more important than what the oil container has on it. Dirty oil, no matter whose name is on the container is worse than subtle chemistry differences in different brands of oil. Superior oil filtering is in the sub 5 micron range, no factory design full flow filter is even close to that range. I really wish I had investigated by pass oil filters while I was racing stock cars, probably would have saved me a few coins over the years.

[Nicks67GTO]

Both good information and both relevant for endurance racing around corners but other than the 3 of us and maybe 4 or 5 other guys on here, the longest anyone here is racing is likely 8-15 seconds in a straight line. It's a bit different. My point is that for the street your typical 400hp 65 GTO ice cream cruise in guy, isn't going to make a bit of difference what he uses.

[Sirrotica]

The use of a by pass oil filter makes a difference no matter how far your driving, or what oil your using, any way you can get the oil filtered down to a minimum 2 micron particulate at a high efficiency rate (97%), your saving wear and tear on any engine. Your also not changing oil just because the factory issue filter can not remove the fine particulate, That's why your oil gets black and it needs to be changed, that's all the fine material that goes right through factory designed filter system.