[Norwood]

And guys on golf carts that think they own the swap meet at Norwalk

[Sirrotica]

At Norwalk the track has a vendor that rents carts with the Bader families full permission/blessing, If the track owners feel comfortable having a vendor renting carts (Only to licensed drivers), why would the participants second guess the owners of the facility????
If you read the rules about operating the wheeled vehicles the track can confiscate a vehicle from someone not obeying the rules of the facility.

I really have no problem with it, and as MA has said there are much more pressing problems than worrying about wheeled vehicles at show and race events. It's a convenience to be able to use a wheeled vehicle at a large event at a 200 acre venue, same as a cell phone is. Norwalk has allowed wheeled vehicles as long as I've been going there (1996), I doubt they're going to change their parameters of their events, feel free to keep beating the horse, I doubt it's going to get up and run...………...

[Norwood]

Ya as they play stop and go in front of every swap space. Most people I see in the swap with carts could certainly use the exercise. I believe that I only mentioned the swap so I’m not sure why you said “200 acre venue”. If You don’t think that the track gets a percentage of the rental then you are very naive. As for me questioning it, last time I looked this is America and atleast for today I have the right to question it as well as state my opinion on it.

[68 461 Bird]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

At Norwalk the track has a vendor that rents carts with the Bader families full permission/blessing, If the track owners feel comfortable having a vendor renting carts (Only to licensed drivers), why would the participants second guess the owners of the facility????
If you read the rules about operating the wheeled vehicles the track can confiscate a vehicle from someone not obeying the rules of the facility.

I really have no problem with it, and as MA has said there are much more pressing problems than worrying about wheeled vehicles at show and race events. It's a convenience to be able to use a wheeled vehicle at a large event at a 200 acre venue, same as a cell phone is. Norwalk has allowed wheeled vehicles as long as I've been going there (1996), I doubt they're going to change their parameters of their events, feel free to keep beating the horse, I doubt it's going to get up and run...………...

As I mentioned earlier on this thread, golf carts are a great time saver at Norwalk with so much to see in a short amount of time.
I prefer to walk the swapmeet so I can see everything, same with the car show. I used the golf cart mainly to get to the far end of the pits and back as fast as I can.

[Norwood]

I’m 62 and this is just the old coming out but if I can walk around the swap and show field for 3 days less than 3 months after compleat hip replacement I think most of these others can to. In those 2 areas it’s also about what gives these people the right of way to infringe on my rights as not all but so many of them do. Last I knew pedestrians have the right of way. Keep the carts on the main thru paths and I have no issue. They are not needed in the middle asles of the swap. End of rant till you piss me off again.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by Norwood

Ya as they play stop and go in front of every swap space. Most people I see in the swap with carts could certainly use the exercise. I believe that I only mentioned the swap so I’m not sure why you said “200 acre venue”. If You don’t think that the track gets a percentage of the rental then you are very naive. As for me questioning it, last time I looked this is America and atleast for today I have the right to question it as well as state my opinion on it.

Because Norwalk is 200 acres venue, and the track allows wheeled vehicles in every part of it, except the Manufactures Midway, they do exclude wheeled vehicles from that portion of the property. I guess that you're trying to tell me they take the money over participant safety?

The Bader family makes money off everyone that shows up to buy, sell, race, show their car, eats ice cream, or track food, it's their business and living. You'd be hard pressed to find track owners/promoters that run such a well oiled operation anywhere in the nation. If you feel so wronged, take it up with the Woodruffs or the Baders, let me know how that works out for you, K...……...

[1965gp]

I don’t think anyone is arguing their rights or if they run a good business at the track.

Obviously you have your opinion- you are probably all over the 200 acres and it makes sense to have a golf cart. I’m not going to disagree at all.

My opinion is that when they set up an area such as a show field or swap meet where most of the pedestrians will be it would be a courtesy to all their of the attendees if they had a parking area for the vehicles (excluding slower single person electric scooters for health reasons) and kept these areas to foot traffic only. You could still use your vehicle to go all over the track and save time- I could enjoy the swap meet and show without having to watch out for motorized vehicles.

It seems simple to me but I don’t own the track.

[Simple Man]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Because Norwalk is 200 acres venue, and the track allows wheeled vehicles in every part of it, except the Manufactures Midway, they do exclude wheeled vehicles from that portion of the property. I guess that you're trying to tell me they take the money over participant safety?

The Bader family makes money off everyone that shows up to buy, sell, race, show their car, eats ice cream, or track food, it's their business and living. You'd be hard pressed to find track owners/promoters that run such a well oiled operation anywhere in the nation. If you feel so wronged, take it up with the Woodruffs or the Baders, let me know how that works out for you, K...……...

Wouldn't be the first or last time a venue takes money over safety, or in this case, annoyance. And just because they allow a vendor to rent carts and scooters doesn't make it right.
I've never been to Norwalk, but I've been to large swap meets like Jefferson, WI. Carts and scooters aren't a problem there, there are some, but not an overabundance. I'm thinking 95% of the people walk. And there they have thousands of vendors. Just wondering. Is it a similar problem at swap meets lie Hershey, Pate, Carlisle, etc?

[The Champ]

I attend two of the top car shows in the country - the Iola Old Car Show (#4) and Back to the 50's (#1). Scooters/Karts/ATV's really aren't a problem at either of them. Those that need scooters - I'm glad they can attend. Kart's and ATV's are only used by staff and emergency personnel.

Iola has 300 acres of show cars, vendor spaces and a car corral to walk around. Back to the 50's is held at the MN State Fairgrounds which is 320 acres. That's a lot of walking - which at this point (64 years old) I can still do on my own two feet - and I've been through 4 major surgeries in the last 12 years.

Last year, I was on the operating table for 8 hours in early May - before the Iola show in early July. I was told before the surgery that I would not golf at all in 2017. I went 5 months before I could comfortably carry anything over 10 pounds. But I drove my 4spd GTO 4 hours to get to the show and didn't use a scooter. I was limited to about an hour of walking at a time and for the first time in years didn't really "see" the whole show. But I had a good time.

I could have rented a scooter there - but chose not to.

This year I made up for last year's limitations and averaged about 8 miles per day walking around the show....

[Sirrotica]

Well I'm 65, (most people guess less than my actual age) I have a bad knee (torn cartilage) and a host of other ailments, degenerated discs in my back due to abusing my body as a mechanic for over 50 years, and 2 work related injuries since 2008 (left foot and left wrist). I'm early retired due to my last 2 work related injuries, and on SSDI because of my host of injuries. The federal government has ascertained I have too many injuries to continue to work in 2012.

I can still walk around Norwalk, but not all day, and we do walk a fair amount. But to get from one side of the track to the other you can't beat a wheeled vehicle. As I say I have walked it when I first started going there in 1996 and was able to walk it until severing a fascia band in the bottom of my foot. It was in 2008 when I purchased a wheeled vehicle because I had a hard cast on my left foot during Norwalk.

We also usually camp at the track and occasionally need potable water which is under the grandstand on the show side. Carrying water jugs 1/2 mile isn't going to happen in my physical state. I also have a large cooler in the rack on the rear of the go kart we carry food and drinks in, instead of buying the drinks from the track vendors. From 2005-2012 my wife and I were T Shirt vendors in the swap meet area and later moved our operation to the Manufacturers Midway, the go kart was invaluable during that time frame.

To look at me you would never know I was disabled and I appear healthy to the average person. I never make an issue of my disabilities, so most people never know about them. I don't have handicap placards for my cars and never use handicapped spaces in parking lots. So Joe Blow is going to assume I'm 100% capable of walking everywhere at Norwalk all the time, I'm not. I'll keep the wheeled vehicle and use it once a year when we visit Norwalk because it make my visit much easier on me during that time. If that annoys someone , you'll just have to be annoyed.

Oh yeah I'm pretty easy to see in the ocean of golf carts, I'd be driving the 2 seat ATV go kart with a 4x4 wing on the top, and a nose wing on the front, painted black and gold, It looks like a miniature sprint car replica. Next year it will be numbered with #35, the number I used throughout my racing career. I just flat out ran out of time this year and wasn't able to number it this year. Go figure that I'd be driving a replica of one of the fastest dirt oval track cars ever conceived.

Plenty of thumbs up while we cruise Norwalk in the mini sprint replica too.

[ta6point6]

Is this the new norm people just complaining about every little thing?

[bird72]

See people in my trainer gig that are undoing decades of over and wrong eating, atrophy from non use, years of desk posture, knee issues common, back issues common. I just don't know how to opinionate on this topic. I also did a few years of off and on chemo where mostly not super obvious. I see some trouble with non med people doing laser eye instant diagnosis of people that they are pre-annoyed on. I mean, I walked ssslllooowww on meds. Sure I make opinions in my head sometimes on things I see, and think "scooters" and such are becoming more of a cultural use thing, and used as new easy out by some folk I described earlier. In fact accelerates the snowball effect of atrophy and degeneration they are on. But people with gone knees, they should not come? Wait a minute....

So scooters as a social issue? When we all work out the 989 items on the priority list above this, lets all have a helluva chat on fixing it! And Good Luck!

[Region Warrior]

Haven't been to Pontiac Nationals in a few years but remember how bad it was with young kids driving motorized vehicles all over the place for no apparent reason.
Going way to fast both pit and show side.
Where are their parents...

[Simple Man]

Originally Posted by ta6point6

Is this the new norm people just complaining about every little thing?

One solution.

I don’t think anyone is arguing their rights or if they run a good business at the track.

Obviously you have your opinion- you are probably all over the 200 acres and it makes sense to have a golf cart. I’m not going to disagree at all.

My opinion is that when they set up an area such as a show field or swap meet where most of the pedestrians will be it would be a courtesy to all their of the attendees if they had a parking area for the vehicles (excluding slower single person electric scooters for health reasons) and kept these areas to foot traffic only. You could still use your vehicle to go all over the track and save time- I could enjoy the swap meet and show without having to watch out for motorized vehicles.

It seems simple to me but I don’t own the track.

[ponchjoe]

Originally Posted by ponchjoe

I too was at Norwalk and was surprise to see Polaris RAZRs, JD Gators, dirt bikes, etc allowed. To me there is a solution for this and it is designated parking in areas of interest like the swap, show, and pits. The grand stands have areas to park so they are fine. It is the show field and swap which should be walked or 4 wheel scooters only. Also should only be golf carts or 4 wheel scooters at the venue in my opinion on paved surface.

And my solution from earlier. No whining here...

[68 461 Bird]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Oh yeah I'm pretty easy to see in the ocean of golf carts, I'd be driving the 2 seat ATV go kart with a 4x4 wing on the top, and a nose wing on the front, painted black and gold, It looks like a miniature sprint car replica. .

That was you??? My wife and I had to stop while you made an illegal u-turn in front of the Ames Tent. Just kidding, we did stop and wait for you to turn around but I also noticed it was one of the nicest golf carts in Norwalk that weekend! Besides the paint that caught my eye, I really liked the wheels too!

[CraigGT37]

Sirrotica,
My son pointed your kart out to me on saturday. I thought it was cool. I saw you again on Sunday in parking area after you had it loaded on trailer.

[RocktimusPryme]

I hadn’t posted in this in a while because I ranted and got it off my chest. Then this week I simultaneously discovered that poison ivy sucks and managed to get a staph infection. Minor irritations went to the back burner.


But I don’t think it’s fair in this case to say you aren’t allowed to point out a problem without a solution. Though often I would say I agree with you. In this case the solution is just for people to police themselves. You know if you really need the crutch. It’s up to you as a person to do the right thing. Obviously people don’t police themselves very well.

Any other solution you come up with will not be an elegant one.

Also just because a business entity takes advantage doesn’t make it a good practice. I would too. This is one of those people are going to do it anyway so you may as well take advantage. Rent carts to the slothful and needy alike. Sell alcohol to social drinkers and alcoholics.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme

I hadn’t posted in this in a while because I ranted and got it off my chest. Then this week I simultaneously discovered that poison ivy sucks and managed to get a staph infection. Minor irritations went to the back burner.


But I don’t think it’s fair in this case to say you aren’t allowed to point out a problem without a solution. Though often I would say I agree with you. In this case the solution is just for people to police themselves. You know if you really need the crutch. It’s up to you as a person to do the right thing. Obviously people don’t police themselves very well.

Any other solution you come up with will not be an elegant one.

Also just because a business entity takes advantage doesn’t make it a good practice. I would too. This is one of those people are going to do it anyway so you may as well take advantage. Rent carts to the slothful and needy alike. Sell alcohol to social drinkers and alcoholics.

A bunch of you people forget about the facility owners liability, and their insurance rates are a direct result of risk vs rewards. You see dragstrips constantly downsizing to 1/8th mile, do you know why? Because the insurance is much cheaper on 1/8th mile facilities vs 1/4 mile facilities. If the risk of people using wheeled vehicles all over the facility was going to pose a huge risk to pedestrians, as some have suggested, the insurance company would clamp right down on the track in a NY minute.

The small monetary reward that the Bader family gets for allowing a vendor to rent carts would be lost as soon as the insurance company raised their rates. I guess there aren't many business owners complaining because they realize that a business that makes poor decisions as far as safety concerns, gets hammered by their insurance company. When the insurance company hammers them they can change their behavior/policies, or suffer the monetary repercussions.

There are rules that the track has concerning guests using wheeled vehicles at the facility, not like they just turn everyone loose and hope for the best. The Bader family knows that the customer is first and foremost, and place a huge amount of importance upon return business.

Point is, Norwalk owners (Bader family) aren't stupid people, they run a first class operation and have been doing it for 3 generations. These are the same people that have the "Bader Guarantee" that they'll do everything within reason to make sure the customer has a delightful experience at their facility. The same people that sell a pound of ice cream for $1, ya think they get rich on that gimmick? In this day and age if they break even on it I'd be surprised, a lost leader in the business world. They, and their insurance company, obviously have few concerns about pedestrian safety and interaction with wheeled vehicles, if they did they would take action.

I'm not so sure some doing the complaining wish they brought, or rented a cart. I've spent enough time discussing this, if you deep down wish you also had a cart, do something about having one. After using mine I would never go to Norwalk without one, It makes an enjoyable experience, even more enjoyable.

Keep kicking that horse, I think I saw him move...………….LOL


68 461 Bird, and CraigGT37, thank you for the compliments on my Go kart, I appreciate that someone sees the effort I put into the vehicle to make mine reflect the type racing (dirt track) that I really enjoy the most. I received a bunch of compliments throughout the weekend and was stopped a few times so people could get pictures of the Go kart. When it was parked while I was visiting with friends, Mike Garblik and Eric Larson at the Boss Bird display in the Manufacturers Midway, I noticed a few people looking it over.

[1965gp]

Jeeez man.... how many times do we have to say it???

We get it- you frequently go to Norwalk. You probably should have more say than me who goes once a year. Yoy have a cool golf cart, You know the owners- or know OF the owners. We have heard you say it several times....

I’m not saying I want a cart, I’m not even saying it is a safety hazard.

I’m saying for EVERYONE to have an enjoyable time the easy solution is to have parking for the carts by the show field and swap meet area. If they want to allow carts that is totally up to the owner / promoter. But I have just as much right to an opinion as you do.

For the case of my dad and I walking the show and swap meet it would be much more enjoyable if the limited cart, atv and bike access.