[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by The Boss

Did you get the VIN?

Boss, do you remember if your body tag had 05C stamped with the small "c"?


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[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Ponimino

I am looking for a car and or owner of a 1968 RA II GTO Hardtop Meridian Turquoise Black bench seat 4 speed car out of New Hampshire.

Here is the content on that GTO

KK - Meridian Turquoise
35 - BENCH SEAT - Black
From: 20 = Mass To: 28 = New Hamp
01-637 = Unknown Dealer
Framingham Plant
6/24/68 Invoice Date


347 -- RamAir Deuce
358 -- M21 4spd
361 -- STT HD Posi
37S -- 4.33 Axle
382 -- AM Radio
391 -- Rear Spkr
424 -- Remote Mirror
434 -- Hood Tach
461 -- Deluxe Wheel Discs (lowest cost FULL wheel covers in 68) [custom and wire = more $]
474 -- Clock
532 -- SoftRay Windshield
568 -- Pwr Driver Seat / Reclining Pass [Combo Option]
621 -- Ride & Handle
634 -- SuperLift Shocks - Rear
71-72 PC -- G70x14 Redlines
754 -- Front Shoulder Belts

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I'll comb back through this thread from the last update point ,
and update with the latest updates - in a new update.
Then we'll be back up to date again.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by NOPLNDN

Sorry for the wait.Almost a year....Here is a copy of my billing card.

This will be Car #19 on updated list
Here is the content.


Hardtop - 4 speed
G2 = April Gold & Black V.Top / 23 = Black Buckets
Baltimore Plant
Invoice # 887638 / Invoice Date 7-17-1968
06-119 Dix Cadillac-Pontiac, State College, PA
$4492.21

347 - Ram Air Deuce
358 - 4spd M21
361 - STT HD Posi
37S - 4.33 Axle
382 - AM Radio
394 - Stereo Tape Player [8-track]
414 - HideAway Headlights
424 - Remote Mirror
444 - Rally Gauges & In-Dash Tach
472 - Console
501 - Power Steering
532 - SoftRay Windshield
71-72 PC - Redlines G70x14
742 - operation code for #754 shoulder belts
754 - Shoulder Belts
[ also equipped with standard Dog-Dish / Poverty Caps ]

[68pongto]

Originally Posted by Verdoro 68

Saw the red convert again and snapped the trim tag. The date is 05c.

Looks like coybilt did the resto as his name was on the sign next to it and his cards were on the car.

That is how my Ram Air 1 will look someday, only with poverty caps.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by tomslik190

I bought a blue 68 GTO back in 7/96 from a seller in Valley City OH. It had a '67 400/400 auto, with highway gears in a BOP rearend. It appeared to have a rough life, showing about 65,000 on the ODO. Hand written on the PHS info is "Your GTO is a RAM AIR II". Originally Verdoro Green, black interior, 4.33 rear. Even the original front bucket seats were gone. CBH attached. is this car on the list or is it one of the missing? Thank You!

This will be car #21 on the updated list.
Thanks for sharing it with us Tom.



Hardtop - 4 speed
QQ = VooDoo Green / 23 = Black Buckets
PMD Plant
Invoice Date 5-23-1968 / Invoice # 736271
Body Date = 5C
08-223 = [potential] Marsh Motor Sales - Orwell Ohio
$4145.42

347 - Ram Air Deuce
358 - 4spd M21
361 - STT HD Posi
37S - 4.33 Axle
382 - AM Radio
414 - HideAway Headlights
444 - Rally Gauges & In-Dash Tach
621 - Ride & Handling
71-72 PD - Whitewall G70x14
754 - Shoulder Belts
[ also equipped with standard Dog-Dish / Poverty Caps ]

[68pongto]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

05C or later , is a quick reference point for hunting in the dark.
Nothing but a rule of thumb indicator though.

The VooDoo Deuce Hdtp Auto that Boss had was 05C from PMD Plant




It might be a special memo type thing.
Don't know for sure they even used fixture ID's in 68
Haven't got enough PMD Plant TrimTag samples in my files to say for sure

I now own the deuce from Chris/Boss, and yes it is a 05C build date Pontiac plant. PHS invoice date of 5/28/1968. I have collected one other PHS of a RA II that 05C with a PHS date 5/23/1968, but it is just a BHC I found on this forum/internet, not really sure if the car exists. As far as I know my RA II is the earliest know surviving car.

As for the sequencing numbers on the upper RH side of the trim tag, I have discovered no rhyme or reason. They are not random, there is some sort of pattern, but they vary widely between all the a-bodies. Here is a list of the numbers I have collected in a database, the = sign denotes a new trim tag and some cars had no numbers in the upper RH corner.
21-1= 17- = 17-1 = 2-M= 21-1M = 50-S2= 16-1= 17-1M = 52-S2= 50-S2= 16-S2 = 12,1
52,1 = 50-M2 = 50-M2 = 23F= 4-1M= 25-1= 26-1SC=2-25B=14-1M=NONE=28-2D
312=11-M2=15-1M=24-1M=52-1=50-1=50-2J=50-2J=50-2J=28-2J=11-M2=16-1M=
28-1M=12-1=50-M2=14-1M=26-2J=422G=1-42G=12-1M=25-1M=16-2J=16-M2=
20-1M=50-1=25-M2=16-21=24-1M=57-2M=60-M2=50-M2=51-M2=50-1=10-=
14-M2=25-M2=10-M2=432J=1-43C=19-1=14-M2=12-M2=10_1=16-M2=19-1SC
NONE=50-M2=50-1=50-1=50-M2=52-1=16-M=22-M2=NONE=NONE=12-1S=NONE
NONE=NONE=NONE=NONE=NONE=9953 9=NONE=10-M2=52-1T=52-1=60-1
2-29B=2-51B=16-1T=13-1=25-1=

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Congrats on getting that VooDoo Deuce from Boss !
I have you listed as new owner on this new update.

Thanks for sharing that info on the TrimTag characters.
Maybe some plants did use a body jig fixture number in 1968-
guessing PMD Plant did - when they had room on the tag.

None of the other plant 68 tags i have on file show them. (not a lot of samples)
The only 68 PMD Plant i have on file is a spring color special paint car
and it has the paint stock number there.

The 5-23-68 PMD Deuce is car #21 that was just added to the list [due to my absence]
Owned by Tomslik190

I do have one even earlier
But can't talk about it until further notice from owner.
Automatic Hardtop , and it is Wild

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

1. CONVERTIBLE - Black- Black top- Gold interior - 4spd
Unrestored excellent survivor - high option - 56k miles
Sold at Mecum for 165k in 2011 or 2012
Documented BHC on PY

2. CONVERTIBLE - Burgandy- White top- White interior - 4spd
Being Frame Off Restored - well optioned
John in Ohio
Documented BHC on PY
*Restoration is complete and car is Spectacular

3. CONVERTIBLE - Gold - Gold interior - Blk top - Automatic
Low mile survivor with cosmetic resto
Rob L in Illinois
documented by longtime collector/owner

4. CONVERTIBLE - Red - Blk top - Blk interior - 4spd
Mark of Mich. his cousin bought it New. Been sold.
*PHS has documented a car such as this - believed to be this same car
*whereabouts currently Unknown

5. Blue - Blue interior - Automatic
Numbers match, intact survivor
Gary Oklahoma
documented by longtime collector/owner

6. VooDoo Green - Black interior - Automatic
Project - missing origial drivetrain - but has the Right Stuff to put it back together
Chris "The Boss" in Conn. - bought from Gary Okla
Documented BHC on PY
*now owned by PY member 68pongto

7. VooDoo Green - Black Vinyl top - Black interior 4spd
Matching #s original survivor - has now been frame off restored by Greg Teeters
previously owned by Gary Oklahoma
Sold to Kevin in Seattle
documented by longtime collector/owner

8. VooDoo Green - Black interior - 4spd
Brian S. OhiO - PY member
Documented BHC on PY

9. Aegena Blue - Black interior - 4spd
Bought on eBay as a project / parts car - was left outside with no front clip
Turns out as Matching #s Ram2 - parked since 1972 with 52k miles
Currently undergoing frame-off resto by owner
PY member gto66yellow in Indiana
documented
*Frame Off Resto is complete.
*has been resold a couple of times - whereabouts currently Unknown

10. VooDoo Green - Gold interior - 4spd
project car being frame off restored by owner
now in Georgia - PY member gahotrods
Documented BHC on PY

11. Red - Blk interior - Blk Vinyl top - 4spd
Real Good above driver quality - older resto
Sold at Mecum auction Summer 2012
From Salmon Brothers Collection
Documented BHC on PY
*formerly owned by PY member weranc - has been sold

12. VooDoo Green - Blk interior - Blk vinyl top - 4spd
Same owner since early 80's
Only recently discovered the car was factory Ram Air II (thanks Paul)
Non-original engine and converted to Automatic - prior to his ownership
Frame-Off Restoration is now planned.
Mark in OhiO - info supplied by PY member PaulatFast
Documented by PaulatFast

13. Red - Red interior - Automatic
RedBull in Michigan
Documented BHC on PY

14. Black - White interior - 4spd
project car
EightBall - in corner pocket at Paul's
BHC has been verified by current owner/PY member

**15. VooDoo Green with Black interior - 4spd
Hood Tach, AM-FM
Awaiting further details
**Car is owned by someone and located somewhere

16. Black - Black Interior - Black Vinyl Top
WY 4 speed
The Deuce of Spades
Owned by GTOWolf since 1976 [ aka - WolfMan Black ]
Documented BHC on PY
*Factory Buildsheet*

17. Black - Gold Interior - 4spd
36,000 actual miles - 2nd owner since 1981
Very well optioned
Currently located in Georgia
All original paperwork from original owner

18. CONVERTIBLE - VooDoo Green - Black Buckets - Black Top - 4spd
Located in Arizona
Owned by PurelyGTO68 since 1988
Documented BHC on PY
*restoration in progress / body and paint completed as of this posting

19.April Gold - Black V.Top - Black Buckets - 4spd
Owned by PY member NOPLNDN
Documented BHC on PY
*sold via eBay in June 2017 - current location Unknown

20. VooDoo Green - Black V.Top - Black Interior - 4spd
Body date = 5D
PS, PDB, AM, Rally IIs, console, remote mirror, ride and handling.
Sold new @ Seltzer Pontiac in Chicago
Owned by OldGoat1 - PY member
documented by current owner - BHC/PHS
*currently for sale in PY Classifieds 9/17/2018

21. VooDoo Green - Black Buckets - 4spd
Invoice Date 5-23-1968 / Invoice # 736271
Body Date = 5C
Documented BHC on PY
*currently owned by PY member Tomslik190



== == == == == == == == == == == == == == == ==


Unverified / Undocumented Potentials :

Verdoro 68 learned of one - Sep 8, 2018
"Surprised to see this show up at local show today...(california)
Solar Red/White/Pearl Ram Air II 4 speed Convertible"
Body Date 05c - PMD Plant


68RamII learned of one - Nov 26, 2017
"I have also talked to someone who claims to have a Blue with white top and interior Convertible."


68bird400HO learned of one - Sep 9, 2017
"I attended the Cruising Tigers show in St. Charles IL last month. In the building was an original family owed 68 Ram Air II GTO convertible 4-speed. The car was white with a black interior and top."
68RamII also added -
"I also met the brother in law of the RA II GTO Convertible that 68Bird400HO talked about. "
[* as far as I can tell - no one has seen any documentation on this car *]


1oldgoat of PY learned of one
"I have another car for the list. It's not mine but sure wish it was! I tried to PM BVZ but the PM folder is full."


1969 Ram Air of PY learned of one
"A friend of mine has a RAII GTO hardtop. Black on black, 4-speed, hideaways and a 4.33 rear."


*VooDoo Green - Black V.Top - 4spd
Located in Mich - owned by RAMAIR Rick since 1981
Has Factory Buildsheet and PHS / BHC
*But no further postings or documents since September 1 2014
*Where did you go RAMAIR Rick !??


Black - Black V.Top - White Interior - 4spd
located Way out Westward
further details may or may not be shared with us - have to wait and see.
Very private owner.
*Been a pretty good while now, probably never will know anything else on this one.


= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

*MIA Car - Knafel in Ohio 68 GTO Ram2 Tin Indian Race Car
appears to be White body with Black interior - 4spd


*MIA Car - Stephen Pontiac in Conn. 68 GTO Ram2 Race Car
Mayfair Maize - 4spd - Endura Delete / Chrome Nose


* MIA Body -
complete LongBlock
Alpine Blue - Automatic
Documented BHC on PY

* MIA Body -
WY block only
Gold - Blk interior 4spd
Documented BHC on PY
Block / engine sold on eBay

* MIA Body -
WY block only
Gold - Gold interior 4spd
Documented BHC on PY
Block belongs to PY member in GA.

* MIA Body
WY shortblock
Meridian Turquoise Black BENCH - 4 speed
Documented BHC on PY
Block belongs to PY member Ponimino April 2, 2018

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

So we have
21 cars
4 engines/blocks

Total of 25 - i think that is real close to what PHS has received requests on.


We have 7 undocumented potentials
At least 4 or 5 of those should be able to produce some documentation if they could just be so kind to share their info with us.
Presuming the cars are really the Real Deal


Can't remember anything about car #15
Will dig back some time later on, and read back about where that info came from.
It may not really belong on the list anymore - but don't want to screw up the car sequence at this point now.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed .
Thanks to anyone else who can also contribute in the future.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

In the past 6 years since this Roll Call started -
we have added 9 cars - (21 total)
some hopeful prospects that might materialize -
and some orphan engines/blocks .

246 cars built -
199 4speed
47 Automatic

4:1 ratio of 4spd vs. Auto in production
17 4spd vs. 4 Auto in our listing - is about 4:1 also

Almost half of current list are VooDoo Green

a few more cars and we can be at 10% of Total Production

[muscle_collector]

GREAT WORK !!!!!

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

In another unrelated thread last week elsewhere on the forum,
PurelyGTO68 had some questions about Billings - and then about some of these Billing Adjustments we see on some early RamAir 2 cars.

I made an error on a target date (5/29 instead of 5/28) , and also have realized an oversight as well.
I need to compile all that and condense it , then put it into this thread.

No big deal , but it might be useful to those who really follow along with this type of stuff on the "paper trails" .
Will get to that later , maybe tonight - or tomorrow some time.

The more of these BHC's we get - especially the Early Ones (5/20 - 5/28) - the easier it will be to see and understand what I'm going to tell you.
We've only made a dent in the total production at 21 examples -
and we weren't even graced with BHC's on all of those.

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by PurelyGTO68

Boss, do you remember if your body tag had 05C stamped with the small "c"?


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Yes, mine had the small c.

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by The Boss

Yes, mine had the small c.

Thanks. Good to know.

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[weranc55]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

In another unrelated thread last week elsewhere on the forum,
PurelyGTO68 had some questions about Billings - and then about some of these Billing Adjustments we see on some early RamAir 2 cars.

I made an error on a target date (5/29 instead of 5/28) , and also have realized an oversight as well.
I need to compile all that and condense it , then put it into this thread.

No big deal , but it might be useful to those who really follow along with this type of stuff on the "paper trails" .
Will get to that later , maybe tonight - or tomorrow some time.

The more of these BHC's we get - especially the Early Ones (5/20 - 5/28) - the easier it will be to see and understand what I'm going to tell you.
We've only made a dent in the total production at 21 examples -
and we weren't even graced with BHC's on all of those.

Hey update your list. I still have the red car or last time I looked in the garage it was there.

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

In another unrelated thread last week elsewhere on the forum,
PurelyGTO68 had some questions about Billings - and then about some of these Billing Adjustments we see on some early RamAir 2 cars.

I made an error on a target date (5/29 instead of 5/28) , and also have realized an oversight as well.
I need to compile all that and condense it , then put it into this thread.

No big deal , but it might be useful to those who really follow along with this type of stuff on the "paper trails" .
Will get to that later , maybe tonight - or tomorrow some time.

The more of these BHC's we get - especially the Early Ones (5/20 - 5/28) - the easier it will be to see and understand what I'm going to tell you.
We've only made a dent in the total production at 21 examples -
and we weren't even graced with BHC's on all of those.

Looking forward to the additional info when you get time to assemble your post. I wondered if car 18 was the only GTO to have the billing adjustment on the BHC....looks like that might not be the case after all.

In your upcoming post....can you share any info you have related to if/when/how the window sticker was printed? Very curious what the window sticker would look like for goats and birds with the billing adjustment for RA II engines.

Thanks for keeping track of all this info! Great work! Stroke of genius to add up the base price plus option costs and cross check against the invoice amount to validate a deuce. Great idea.

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[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by weranc55

Hey update your list. I still have the red car or last time I looked in the garage it was there.

HaHa Chuck
LMAO

It only took us 3 years to get BHC Info on the car after you bought it in 2012.
From another outside source.
And that was over 3 years ago. (6 years total now)

It sort of sounded like you sold it to a guy in Chicago ?
Did you get it back again ?
idunno what happened

Just let me know the scoop and i can keep the updates more accurate next time.
Last update was over 4 years ago - July 30, 2014
If i update again in 2022 - I'm going to check with you first

Originally Posted by Gtowolf

Nov 18 2014 - post #210

The Red / Black #11 on List
The guy that bought this car from the auction sold it to his friend that lives in Chicago. The reason I know this is he was wanting to buy my car. I was a rude seller and stopped answering my phone after a while,I feel bad about that. I know his name and will not post out if respect to him.

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

July 27, 2015 - post #289

We've been waiting on this one for about 3 years !

This is for the Red 4speed car that PY member "weranc" bought at a Mecum 2012 auction. Formerly of the Salmon Brothers Collection
It is Car #11 on the listing

Red , Black Top , Black Interior
Ram Air II , 4 speed
Pontiac Plant
Dealer = 14 - 547 = Unknown , somewhere in Iowa (BHC state code 14)
Invoice Date = June 05, 1968
Invoice Number = 771376

(yada yada Content Prices Etc breakdown from belated BHC)

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by PurelyGTO68

...
In your upcoming post....can you share any info you have related to if/when/how the window sticker was printed? Very curious what the window sticker would look like for goats and birds with the billing adjustment for RA II engines.

Want to go ahead and put what i can on this topic to keep it separate.
The Billing Stuff will be a little heavy even in condensed form.

i don't know a whole lot about window stickers overall.
Fairly sure they are printed and applied at the Mfg.Plant. (initially)

We only have One 1968 GTO RamAir ORIGINAL Window Sticker
We also have the BHC for this Car.
It is a "Late" RamAir One car - Invoiced 4/16/68
The key to this one is - there was an additional $15 upcharge on these cars at that period - and i believe Memo's to inform.
Its been a while since we covered that issue and it isn't on my front burner.
But several Ram1 examples have the $15 upcharge.

So lets absorb that - we have both original documents.
They both have per-se' Suggested Retail Prices.

However, the Window Sticker does not have account for the $15 surcharge.
$4103.24 (Brian S. copied the original - i trust him)
The BHC ... DOES have it for the extra $15
$4118.24

The Billing from PMD Billing Dept to the Dealer - will always have the last word.
In some cases like this the dealer would print out another window sticker.
For $15 - the dealer probably wasn't worried either way.
We also don't know the full deal of whether the dealer already had the $15 covered with the buyer to begin with.
But he should have.

So ...
the Ram2 cars with Billing Adjustments on BHC - likely had improper Window Stickers too, when they left the Plant.

But again - with the lead way and Memo's coming up into Ram2 Release - the Dealers , and especially the guys and gals at Regional Zone Offices who audited and approved orders before sending them to build plants - would have had all this covered on what would be Ram2 cars and what price accordingly.
And the dealers would have known at that point what to expect even if they were lacking in keeping up with the Memo's.


The Assembly Plants were not responsible for billing to the dealers or any sales criteria. That was all handled at PMD Motherland Administrative/Accounting in the Big House where they wore suits and dresses.
The window sticker data was just left lagging in some instances, it appears.

To make this even more dramatic - lol - this car was a PMD Plant car.
So prime example of the importance placed on up to the minute window sticker data.

[PurelyGTO68]

Thanks BVZ,
I ordered a reproduction window sticker with the PHS docs. Really a window card at this point since the reprint is laminated...

At any rate, the MSRP on the reproduction card matches the BHC amount (without accounting for the RA II billing adjustment of course). I asked Jim about this and he said the original window sticker for my car would not have the adjusted amount. No further explanation though....I know he is super busy and doesn't have time to educate folks so I didn't dig any further.

Like you, I suspect the window sticker was printed at the assembly plant. I just don't see how PMD could have created it ahead of time. The assembly manual shows how to install it in the window so we can expect with reasonable accuracy the cars had it when they shipped from the assembly plants. Makes sense really....would be a good way to make sure the cars went to the intended destination.

There were also shipping manifest documents but that should be it's own conversation and not very relevant to this thread.

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