[SR-71]

I believe I read years ago that Saturn was one of the first companies to have engineers work on production lines to see the problems that they may create and how to find ways of avoiding them in their designs.

[64speed]

What’s funny is my nephew just got a job at Bosch in the oxygen sensor dept of the Anderson SC plant. He just graduated in May and one of his job requirements is to check behind the interns and sign off on their design work. I was asking him how he liked his job and he said it was great other than them wanting him to approve designs for “kids” that are where he was only 5 months ago

[Shiny]

Originally Posted by dataway

Actually ... I bet the engineers designed the clip so it had a pressed hump that engaged the conduit ... and the bean counters said it would be cheaper if it was just a straight tab bent over. Then the engineers said that's going to eventually wear through the conduit ... and bean counters said, how long will that take, and the engineers said 8 to 10 years, and the bean counters said ... we're good with that.

This one is my bet.

I usually stay out of this stuff, but the topic is too close to home. I work as a hardware reliability engineer (not automotive), which means I own the "how long will it last" part of a lot of design decisions. Trust me, cost and schedule (time to market) can easily trump something that hasn't happened yet.

Part cost and weeks required to change tooling are tangible numbers on a spreadsheet. Risk for failure is a guess unless there is really compelling accelerated test data or a history of field failure or customer complaints that impacted warranty costs or brand reputation.

Remember, the goal was to make a profit for the car company.

Your definition of "good enough" and the manufacturer's may therefore be different !!

In this case, the clip and that fail mode probably weren't even on the reliability risk radar given the wire was "protected" by a conduit.

Agree the design could be improved and the fail mode anticipated but cost probably drove the sharp edge and the tests they performed didn't cause the failure so they shipped it!

[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by cdrookie

There's a lot of smart engineers, and there are a lot of dumb engineers. The title of "engineer" doesn't guarantee high intelligence.

Did you study Calculus, Differential Equations, Applied Engineering Mathematics, Statics and Dynamics, Fluid Dynamics, Thermodynamics, Kinematics of Machinery, Engineering Material Science, Strength of Materials and Manufacturing Design for your chosen line of work?

A B.S. in Mechanical Engineering or any of the engineering disciplines is pretty much a guarantee of high intelligence,

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint

A B.S. in Mechanical Engineering or any of the engineering disciplines is pretty much a guarantee of high intelligence,

Then why are so many of them F'd up? Especially in the head.

[cdrookie]

My chosen line of work doesn't require any of that. If I did select a career path that required those fields of study I'm sure I would've done well. A good teacher can educate anyone willing to learn, a bad teacher can have everyone in class questioning themselves. Engineers are the same way, good and bad, but there's also lazy ones that make you wonder if the intelligence or ambition is there.

There's plenty of intelligent people out there who either didn't have the opportunity, or didn't know to take advantage of the opportunities that are available, for them to reach their full potential.

[Chief of the 60's]

And then there are those that are much smarter with half the education because of real world and/or shop experience. Some with little or no education at all. An engineer can pull out his slide rule and decipher how to tune an engine, a good mechanic will pull out his screwdriver and actually do it!

[Elarson]

I can speak to this since I'm a design engineer with a pretty good track record of success on projects spanning a lot of topics. I have the college education but I also have a lot of dirty fingernails/bloody knuckles experience working on the race car, general automotive repair, home remodeling, barn building, etc. Looking around me, the design engineers that I respect the most, all have a mechanical hobby. One guy restores tractors, another is a SCCA racer, another has raced hydroplanes.....etc. I also have a habit of walking around machine shops, steel mills, etc. and asking questions of the mechanics and technicians that are actually in the trenches using stuff. My favorite line around here is "If I was working on this in MY garage.......". Design engineers that don't have a hands-on hobby are generally not as good at foreseeing problems beyond the math.

On the other hand....in a general defense of engineering....it's pretty easy to look at something that already exists and pick it apart, thinking that you're smarter than those engineers with their fancy degrees. Hindsight is 20/20, especially if you don't have to answer to the bean counters and program managers.

Eric

[Overkillphil]

I spent years fixing Engineering blunders and oversights. I’ve also had the honor and pleasure of working under some very bright and talented Engineers.

There are plenty of Enginners out there who should have gone into a different line of work. But they test well “on paper” and some of those degrees were from questionable Colleges and Universities. Then there are the “online Universities”.

These days too many Engineers (especially in the public sector) are really just marketing people and just take manufacturers information and incorporate it into their “plans & specifications”.

The best Engineers I’ve worked with were ones with actual hands-on experience. They also would talk with the worker bees to get feedback and opinions on improving things prior to initiating or changing a design.

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by Elarson

I can speak to this since I'm a design engineer with a pretty good track record of success on projects spanning a lot of topics. I have the college education but I also have a lot of dirty fingernails/bloody knuckles experience working on the race car, general automotive repair, home remodeling, barn building, etc. Looking around me, the design engineers that I respect the most, all have a mechanical hobby. One guy restores tractors, another is a SCCA racer, another has raced hydroplanes.....etc. I also have a habit of walking around machine shops, steel mills, etc. and asking questions of the mechanics and technicians that are actually in the trenches using stuff. My favorite line around here is "If I was working on this in MY garage.......". Design engineers that don't have a hands-on hobby are generally not as good at foreseeing problems beyond the math.

On the other hand....in a general defense of engineering....it's pretty easy to look at something that already exists and pick it apart, thinking that you're smarter than those engineers with their fancy degrees. Hindsight is 20/20, especially if you don't have to answer to the bean counters and program managers.

Eric

Originally Posted by Overkillphil

I spent years fixing Engineering blunders and oversights. I’ve also had the honor and pleasure of working under some very bright and talented Engineers.

There are plenty of Enginners out there who should have gone into a different line of work. But they test well “on paper” and some of those degrees were from questionable Colleges and Universities. Then there are the “online Universities”.

These days too many Engineers (especially in the public sector) are really just marketing people and just take manufacturers information and incorporate it into their “plans & specifications”.

The best Engineers I’ve worked with were ones with actual hands-on experience. They also would talk with the worker bees to get feedback and opinions on improving things prior to initiating or changing a design.

I can agree as well as relate to both of these posts. I guess I just hung around too many Smokey Yunicks who can do anything (and do it better) without a lick of schooling. And Eric, I've seen your hands.

[Elarson]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

. And Eric, I've seen your hands.

They're not heavily calloused construction worker hands but thankfully not genteel society hands either.

Eric

[chevymad]

The wiring outlasted the car company. How bad can it be? You were expected to replace the car years ago.