[lfdsteve]

Originally Posted by dataway

As for CA and Europe banning the sale of diesel and gas autos in ELEVEN YEARS ... anyone want to make a bet on that?

That is absolutely ridiculous and I find it hard to believe it's true. Anyone really think it's possible to totally replace the HUGE fossil fuel automotive infrastructure in CA or Europe in 11 years. Sounds like an internet rumor, or someone totally exaggerating the actual wording of the legislation.

So 30 million cars in CA are going to replaced, and the charging infrastructure built, and the electrical grids COMPLETELY revamped, electric production TRIPLED (what fusion power??) ... and all this in ELEVEN YEARS ?? It's laughable. MAYBE in 30 years it could happen.

33.3 kWh is about what it takes to equal a gallon of gas. 10 gallons = 330 KWh ... or about half the power I use in my house each month.

Point being, CA would have to at least double the capacity of their electric production, and the capacity of their electric grid to charge millions of cars on a daily basis. Where exactly is all this new power going to come from? The cost would be in the Trillions of dollars to accomplish it in 11 years.

Is it possible .... without a doubt ... is it possible in ELEVEN years ... not even close.

It’s California. It doesn’t have to be practical or even within the realm of reality. As long as it continues to dupe stupid people into voting for the same idiots every time, it will pass.

[U47]

Originally Posted by dataway

As for CA and Europe banning the sale of diesel and gas autos in ELEVEN YEARS ... anyone want to make a bet on that?

That is absolutely ridiculous and I find it hard to believe it's true. Anyone really think it's possible to totally replace the HUGE fossil fuel automotive infrastructure in CA or Europe in 11 years. Sounds like an internet rumor, or someone totally exaggerating the actual wording of the legislation.

So 30 million cars in CA are going to replaced, and the charging infrastructure built, and the electrical grids COMPLETELY revamped, electric production TRIPLED (what fusion power??) ... and all this in ELEVEN YEARS ?? It's laughable. MAYBE in 30 years it could happen.

33.3 kWh is about what it takes to equal a gallon of gas. 10 gallons = 330 KWh ... or about half the power I use in my house each month.

Point being, CA would have to at least double the capacity of their electric production, and the capacity of their electric grid to charge millions of cars on a daily basis. Where exactly is all this new power going to come from? The cost would be in the Trillions of dollars to accomplish it in 11 years.

Is it possible .... without a doubt ... is it possible in ELEVEN years ... not even close.

I understand that every new house built has to be solar equipped in Ca.

[SRR]

Originally Posted by dataway

As for CA and Europe banning the sale of diesel and gas autos in ELEVEN YEARS ... anyone want to make a bet on that?

That is absolutely ridiculous and I find it hard to believe it's true. Anyone really think it's possible to totally replace the HUGE fossil fuel automotive infrastructure in CA or Europe in 11 years. Sounds like an internet rumor, or someone totally exaggerating the actual wording of the legislation.

So 30 million cars in CA are going to replaced, and the charging infrastructure built, and the electrical grids COMPLETELY revamped, electric production TRIPLED (what fusion power??) ... and all this in ELEVEN YEARS ?? It's laughable. MAYBE in 30 years it could happen.

33.3 kWh is about what it takes to equal a gallon of gas. 10 gallons = 330 KWh ... or about half the power I use in my house each month.

Point being, CA would have to at least double the capacity of their electric production, and the capacity of their electric grid to charge millions of cars on a daily basis. Where exactly is all this new power going to come from? The cost would be in the Trillions of dollars to accomplish it in 11 years.



Is it possible .... without a doubt ... is it possible in ELEVEN years ... not even close.

I have solar on my house (100% electric)and at first it was awesome to see the small power bills, well now they changed the way they compute the costs and haven't seen one less than $150. and since it has been mostly cloudy and raining for the last 3 weeks our last bill was over $400. I don't see gas powered cars going away here the way these idiots who run the state love taxes/reg. fee's. Public transportation here is a joke, the buses/trolleys I see everyday have hardly any riders. New houses here are being built with solar panels.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by SRR

I have solar on my house (100% electric)and at first it was awesome to see the small power bills, well now they changed the way they compute the costs and haven't seen one less than $150. and since it has been mostly cloudy and raining for the last 3 weeks our last bill was over $400. I don't see gas powered cars going away here the way these idiots who run the state love taxes/reg. fee's. Public transportation here is a joke, the buses/trolleys I see everyday have hardly any riders. New houses here are being built with solar panels.

Our house is 100% solar too. Did it about 6 years ago. We seldom get rain or even clouds here so it works pretty well, but like you mentioned, I've noticed the bill has crept up a bit since they have changed how they compute costs.

I honestly don't see it as a solution to saving energy, especially when you consider the small handful of states that even see the amount of sunshine we do.

[U47]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Our house is 100% solar too. Did it about 6 years ago. We seldom get rain or even clouds here so it works pretty well, but like you mentioned, I've noticed the bill has crept up a bit since they have changed how they compute costs.

I honestly don't see it as a solution to saving energy, especially when you consider the small handful of states that even see the amount of sunshine we do.

I'm surprised you guys didn't get locked to a basic service rate in with your original agreement. I did.

[ck67goat]

Original post brings up some very good points but missed some of the most obvious which is that as with all new technologies or ideas, they are rarely implemented without someone figuring out how to make a buck off of you. There will also be hidden costs to everything and even "free" solar energy will be taxed in many ways - grid connection or if you plan storing in batteries, the cost and recycling of batteries, panels and other components will wind up costing well above actual cost due to regulation and an imperfect human world we live in.
As far as electric cars, they are here. The IC engine may not disappear entirely, however for the automobile, they are making more and more sense - the motor is quite simple technology and Tesla has demonstrated to doubters out there who thought electric power could not meet or exceed the performance of an IC engine. Battery weight and efficiency continues to evolve as will infrastructure and support. Where Tesla will eventually fall short is support for repairs on their fleet after warranties expire. I hear stories of over $1k just to replace a window regulator and standard parts from the Tesla factory that sells are over 10x the amount us car guys would ever expect to pay.
As for other car companies, though Tesla seems to have a head start in technology, they are still a new company that does not quite have the economy of scale as other established car companies. GM and Ford focusing on trucks and SUVs for now is what will keep these companies afloat for the near term since both are far behind in trying to compete in the electric car market. The European auto-makers have been quicker to embrace the changes, not only to compete with Toyota's hybrids, but also out of necessity due to coming regulation. I'm surprised Toyota has been a bit slower to bring out their EV but that is Toyota's way of doing things - in all probability when either they or a European auto maker puts a car out for the masses, they likely will take a little bit of market away from Tesla. Once a truly affordable and workable EV comes out, IC engines will eventually be limited for use in trucks and specialty vehicles for a while. Unless Tesla gets a car for the masses out soon, the price of the current model 3's available will keep the Tesla a boutique car maker - I would not be surprised in the least bit if they either merge or are bought out if they plan to truly compete with the traditional large automakers.

[Sirrotica]

As soon as this monstrosity of a bill comes up for a vote the "new green dream" will go down in flames. AOC and the co sponsor of the bill are morons.

No airlines to be replaced with high speed rail, good luck taking that train to Europe. Rebuild/replace every building in the US for energy efficiency in 10 years, I believe that works out to 32,000 buildings per day...……………..

The bill could be from a 13 year old kid that knows absolutely nothing about the world and life=AOC.

[U47]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

As soon as this monstrosity of a bill comes up for a vote the "new green dream" will go down in flames. AOC and the co sponsor of the bill are morons.

No airlines to be replaced with high speed rail, good luck taking that train to Europe. Rebuild/replace every building in the US for energy efficiency in 10 years, I believe that works out to 32,000 buildings per day...……………..

The bill could be from a 13 year old kid that knows absolutely nothing about the world and life=AOC.

The part that worries me and should all of us is that these people with these ideas are in Washington, media, schools.

[cabhop]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

As soon as this monstrosity of a bill comes up for a vote the "new green dream" will go down in flames. AOC and the co sponsor of the bill are morons.

No airlines to be replaced with high speed rail, good luck taking that train to Europe. Rebuild/replace every building in the US for energy efficiency in 10 years, I believe that works out to 32,000 buildings per day...……………..

The bill could be from a 13 year old kid that knows absolutely nothing about the world and life=AOC.

Take the grumblings over to phox...

[66sprint6]

The Utopian dream has always been tempered by the reality of the costs in creating it.
I've worked in many new and existing buildings where they try to implement green initiatives and they always end up scaling back when they see the price of sustainability.
Again, I believe that most people on here are intelligent and adaptable enough to accept the change. It's the overpromising that an older (speaking for myself) person might be a little cynical about. Not the technology. We've been promised stuff before like safe streets, the end of poverty and generally a better world. Seems to have gone the other way.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

As soon as this monstrosity of a bill comes up for a vote the "new green dream" will go down in flames. AOC and the co sponsor of the bill are morons.

No airlines to be replaced with high speed rail, good luck taking that train to Europe. Rebuild/replace every building in the US for energy efficiency in 10 years, I believe that works out to 32,000 buildings per day...……………..

The bill could be from a 13 year old kid that knows absolutely nothing about the world and life=AOC.

Agree, that lady is an idiot. It was on the news this morning. I laughed at the part of the bill that stated, "money for people unable and UNWILLING to work" She's just stupid. Not to mention, where is all the money going to come from to fund all the new green energy efficient buildings throughout the US?? It's estimated just that alone will take several TRILLION dollars to accomplish. Is it going to come from tax payers? What happens when everyone is suddenly "unwilling" to work? When she was asked about that she just said there is no such thing as a spending limit with this bill. Oh.....okay Just more stupid leftist ideas.

[ck67goat]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Agree, that lady is an idiot. It was on the news this morning. I laughed at the part of the bill that stated, "money for people unable and UNWILLING to work" She's just stupid. Not to mention, where is all the money going to come from to fund all the new green energy efficient buildings throughout the US?? It's estimated just that alone will take several TRILLION dollars to accomplish. Is it going to come from tax payers? What happens when everyone is suddenly "unwilling" to work? When she was asked about that she just said there is no such thing as a spending limit with this bill. Oh.....okay Just more stupid leftist ideas.

What I don't understand is why this lady is even on the news? Are we truly becoming an idiocracy?

Obama tried the same plan for high speed trains which failed. For smaller countries might be a good idea, but for the U.S. is a nightmare from a logistics and infrastructure standpoint. Airline travel is so cheap, safe, fast and efficient that long distance passenger rail in this country makes limited sense.

Imagine the cost to build all those rail lines only to have no one riding on them.

The only place high speed rail is really useful is in congested/urban areas - imagine trying to cross the country by train vs. flying. Then the safety standpoint - the number of rail crossing accidents in this country are already quite high, once you add high speed to the mix, a single accident would be quite devestating. I'll take a flight any day where I know there is zero chance a semi-truck might accidentally get stuck in your path or some nitwit put something on the rails.

Lastly, one mile of runway will take you in any direction and far as you please to go int the world. One mile of track will take you exactly one mile in one direction .

[jerry455]

The lack of charging stations is what is hampering the electric car. Battery technology must still improve. There needs to be a standard charging station so that you can charge at any available outlet, like the gas stations have an SAE standard gas nozzle. If Tesla makes there own chargers and the other manufacturers have there own chargers that is silly. There needs to be one standard design. I still don't want an electric car but they are starting to get more viable. I still don't see how everyone will have one in 10 years or what ever the crazy lady says. Where is all this electricity going to come from when they ban all fossil fuels. They don't like nuclear either. The grid won't be able to handle it any way.

[rohrt]

The only thing holding back the electric cars are the batteries. There are several technologies on the forefront that have the potential to be game changers.

It seems its not so much the government pushing this as much as people wanting them. Once the technology catches up I bet there will be an explosion of electric cars on the road.

Who knows an explosion of electric cars may bring gas prices way down. The one thing the gov will have to scramble for is the lack of tax money for road repairs since it mostly comes from gas sales. I can see getting publicly shamed in the future for driving a gas driven car some day.

I could always do this.
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/retro-e...aled-in-russia

[george kujanski]

These proposals are done by liberal nitwits who have no clue as to energy issues. Mass use of electric cars will require more electrical generation......o wait, the majority of generation in this country is fossil fueled, but wait, that generates a lot of CO2, but wait, so does heating your house......
But wait, there's renewable sources, wind and solar, but wait, they are expensive investments, and require a lot of real estate....
Not that it's impossible, but theses clowns think it takes no time and forests of money trees.

George

[BOB VIDAN]

Nobody has even mentioned the military. Wonder what a battery or solar powered tank would look like? Yah I know robots will be doing everything but don't they need powered also. My father, God bless him, had the best saying for people like AOC, you'll sh** to if you eat regular.