[dataway]

I think one place where people get their lines crossed when it comes to pricing is .. just paint ... or body work and paint. If you add in body work and reassembly, jeez, a huge amount of time could be added. One is basically a body restoration ... the other is a paint job.

[MUSLCAH]

Just remember.....they come apart faster ,than they go back together.

[70oldgoat]

Originally Posted by dataway

I think one place where people get their lines crossed when it comes to pricing is .. just paint ... or body work and paint. If you add in body work and reassembly, jeez, a huge amount of time could be added. One is basically a body restoration ... the other is a paint job.

What is the estimate number of man hours for a complete frame off restoration? (realizing it's a difficult number due to not knowing what is under the existing paint, etc...)

Not to include an engine or transmission rebuild.

Actual man hours, not "shop hours".

Moreover, do those of you in the business charge your labor by the number of man hours or do you charge by the number of "shop hours" (shop hours meaning you may have more than one man working on the same project at the same time).

Not looking for a dollar figure, just the number of hours you estimate for the labor.

800 - 1000?

[Stuart]

I had one of my cars cosmetically restored a few years back. Besides the paint job itself, there ended up being a lot more rust repair than was expected (doesn't this always happen? ) and there was quite a bit of disassembly/reassembly. I think it ended up being around 400 hours of labor.

This wasn't a 'frame off' job either, you could probably have a couple thousand hours into something like that.

[My442]

First and foremost, you need to have your expectations set before you go out looking for a shop.

How good is good enough? Do you want Pebble Beach quality orr GM quality?

What work will you do versus what the shop will do?

Have you articulated your requirements in writing?

WHO will do it.

HOW it will get done.

WHEN will it be done.

WHERE it will be done.

Do you have contingency clauses in your written CONTRACT?

Does the shop have the proper permits and insurance?

How long have they been in business? References?

My suggestion is to do the disassembly, cleaning, parts chasing, and reassembly - that will save a lot of $$$

That's how I go about it, and have not had any issues.

[Chris65LeMans]

I had my car restored at a shop across town, but I made sure to stop by at least once every other week. I had a good shop restore my car, but me showing up every two weeks with a checkbook in my pocket to pay for work done, if needed, certainly didn't hurt.

Just like when I deal with contractors, I didn't pay a deposit - I just paid for work done. If a shop can't afford to pay for their own materials upfront and get reimbursed by you later, that would be a red flag for me.

Be realistic with your time frames - My car was at the shop for 9 months, had a TON of stuff done, and showed progress the entire time.

[TAKerry]

I would think that 400 hrs would be close. 1000 hours would be one man working 8 hrs a day, 5 days a week for a little over 6 months. A competent worker should be able to complete a tremendous amount of work in that time. I would think that hours are hours, regardless if one guy or ten are working on the car. As far as deposits, I would see no problem giving a start up deposit. I am a contractor and depending on the size of the job I will take up to a 30% (allowed by law) deposit to start a job. This will cover the start up cost for the material, I dont see why I should bankroll the lumber/shingles/flooring etc. that is immediately being used on the customers property. In my case things are a bit different because I wont bill until parts are delivered to job site, at the least the customer can see a tangible product for the value, not as easily done when you car is away at a shop. You have no idea where the money is being spent.

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by dataway

I think one place where people get their lines crossed when it comes to pricing is .. just paint ... or body work and paint. If you add in body work and reassembly, jeez, a huge amount of time could be added. One is basically a body restoration ... the other is a paint job.

X2

When I'm getting ready to ship a car off to paint, it's gutted and all the glass is pulled. It saves a huge chunk of change.

I usually strip the paint too.

[64speed]

If I give my paint man the 6500 up front and 500 a month how often would you check on the car? He is 45 mins to an hour away so I was thinking I would drive down once a month and write a check in person and check on the car. I can also keep track of him on Facebook.

[dataway]

At least every two weeks, and take pictures when you are there, every time, and keep the pictures as a record.

[Cardo]

I don't believe i would give a paint guy $6500 up front. Some materiel money and pay weekly for completed work. I am in the process of paint right now. I paid for materiel directly through his account, and paid $700 up front for fist week work. I pay weekly from there forward.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by 64speed

If I give my paint man the 6500 up front and 500 a month how often would you check on the car? He is 45 mins to an hour away so I was thinking I would drive down once a month and write a check in person and check on the car. I can also keep track of him on Facebook.

Providing an initial down payment is one thing, but that's a huge amount of upfront money. If he's demanding that much to just get started on the car it sets off alarm bells for me.

[Chris65LeMans]

I agree that’s a huge down payment. Plus - at $500 a month, where is his incentive to get finished quickly?

Also, when he has long since spent that $6,500 on paying his own bills, how much of his time will he spend for your $500 / mo.?

[66beaumont]

Originally Posted by Cardo

I don't believe i would give a paint guy $6500 up front. Some materiel money and pay weekly for completed work. I am in the process of paint right now. I paid for materiel directly through his account, and paid $700 up front for fist week work. I pay weekly from there forward.

Did that deal when I did my Beaumont. Body man was brother of a guy I worked with. Car was 1/2 hour away. Every time we set up a meet he was a no show. I would go there unannounced and he was never there. Eventually found a connection to painters landlord through a friend. Landlord let me in to get car back,for 6000 I got back a car that was media blasted,poor job of installation of rear quarters and all rot buried with duraglass and hidden under a coat of primer

[dataway]

Bear in mind a lot of shops assume you have no idea what you are looking at or you wouldn't be bringing it to them in the first place. They believe all you care about is the car "looking good" and know nothing about what goes into proper body work. And by the time the car starts to rust through either you or them will be gone or forgotten.

[Sanduners]

The first car took 5 months, was promised in 3. The second car is still there! Going on 22 months now but he promised it by Memorial day, this year too.

[Sidponcho]

Me and the body guy looked at mine and agreed it was very solid BUT we also agreed there could be surprises after the paint was stripped.
Happy to say, no surprises

[Mrp613]

Originally Posted by 64speed

If I give my paint man the 6500 up front and 500 a month how often would you check on the car? He is 45 mins to an hour away so I was thinking I would drive down once a month and write a check in person and check on the car. I can also keep track of him on Facebook.

If you do that you deserve the screwing you’re most likely to receive. He shouldn’t need $6500 up front to get started. Before doing that tour his shop. Look at the cars already there. Wait 4-6 weeks and go back to talk to them again and pay attention to the cars that were there your first visit. See if work has been done. The crook I worked for would shuffle cars around the lot regularly to make it look like work was getting done, and if you made a monthly visit it meant your car got some quick work the afternoon before your visit and someone was sure to be “working” on it when the owner dropped by. His treatment of customers was the biggest reason I left

[MUSLCAH]

By reading all these horror stories......all you experts ,should do your own body and paint....then no one gets screwed.

[64speed]

It’s Classic Pontiac Rescue that I am dealing with. They have been featured in Smoke Signals and on one of the car shows on velocity I just can’t remember which one. What else are you supposed to do when you aren’t competent to do the work yourself. You are kind of at these guys mercy. The 6500 is half up front and materials. Should I go with a shop that’s main bread and butter is insurance work or should I go with CPR?