[Va68goat]

64speed,
Good advice. I just want this motor running right. I've reached out to Paul multiple times and he went ghost. As you can see, he doesn't even comment on this thread unless it's an easy answer to someone's question that diverts the attention away from him. That's ok though, hopefully the timing issue will get addressed today and the knocking noise will be gone. I have plenty of time to address any other concerns.

[GTO JONES]

Did you get to check the timing?

[Va68goat]

Nothing conclusive as of yet. Need to do more tweaking. Hopefully it will get done this weekend. I don't want to post anything that is not accurate.

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by 455GRIN

Not sure how this situation is usually handled when an engine has issue at the dyno from improper assembly that damaged parts. If the pick up tube fell off and damaged parts on dyno, why were you charged for new parts? Is there some type of warranty? The issue was not your doing so why did you have to pay for that mistake?

Also wanted to add. I was talking with my engine builder last month when my motor was on the dyno. Some how the subject of the "pick up tube falling off" came up. He told about a situation that happen on his motor at the quarter mile track. He lost oil pressure during a 1/4 run, when he got it apart, he found the oil pump tube laying in the pan, said all the bearing looked fine. So not sure that much damage could be done with missing pick up tube. He also runs a MSD and it was not damaged either.

So sorry to hear about the issues. No good for anyone. Hopefully someone can show you the basics(adjusting timing, setting idle on carb) and this motor sorted for you.

First off, Joe did NOT get charged for fixing the engine after the bearing spun. Not sure how that came into belief. #5 rod bearing was eaten up. The heat transferred into #6 rod although #6 bearing was fine. Because of the heat transferred into #6 rod is why we replaced both rods. We did not want Joe having anything less than what he paid for. We fixed that issue just as good as brand new. I didn't want to re-use that crank for him even though a .010" under would have fixed it right up. Instead I got another crank. The pickup tube came off because I installed it with green Loctite which solidified by the time the tube was in so it felt tight, but in actuality what had happened[which we found out when we tried to install another tube in it to see what was up] is the entry chamfer for the tube was apparently cut with a dull cutter so it formed the slightest of burrs which over crushed the pickup tube by a couple thou. So the vibrations from the engine running broke the Loctite loose and the tube came out. When we tried to install another new tube in that pump, it went in tight but as soon as it was in, we grabbed it and it pulled right out without resistance. That's when we discovered the burr. So I used a piece of sandpaper on a flapper to flap the entry to remove the burr[which could not be felt BTW] then when we installed another new pickup tube, it went in tight and stayed in tight. So now I flapper all entry's on pumps, and we tig weld the tube in place instead of mig welding them. I've seen tubes come off before that were mig welded which is why we quit doing that. I thought the green Loctite would be a better solution but it didn't work in this case. That was my mistake that I did not catch and Joe was NOT charged for that. This is literally the first bearing failure I've ever had in an engine out of 500 or so built. I think that is a pretty damn good track record and I don't like having this one mistake to keep being rubbed in my face. Everyone makes mistakes, it's how few of mistakes you make that really counts. I could have lied to Joe and told him there was another hold up, but I do not do things like that so I was honest with him, now he just won't quit rubbing it in my face. But I'm sure he has never made a mistake in his life.

[Va68goat]

gtofreek,

I really would hate to respond to this because it would be much better handled by a phone conversation. I notice your comments only respond to questions or comments that divert the attention from the hard questions that I have. To say that I'm rubbing things in your face is almost childish. I have questions that are difficult for you to answer because your ego and your pride are bigger than your ability to understand why someone is questioning you. It's not my problem if you're offended that someone dare challenges or questions "GTOFREEK".

I'll be more than happy to play this out right here if you want me to. Give me the word and I can start posting every text that we have sent each other. I have nothing but time but I don't want to do that. I have handled everything better than most people. I have EVERY text between you and I since day one. Plenty of them tell you not to worry about the mistake with the pickup tube and some I'm actually joking around telling you how I'm now learning something about motors. I've sent you gifts from Virginia to you when it was time to send you parts. I even offered you a plane ticket to Virginia to look at the motor and said you could stay at my house. You declined that.

I've made plenty of mistakes. I learned from them because I confronted them and I dealt with the consequences. You're throwing a tantrum because someone dared question you. Let me know if you want this played out here. I'll be more than happy to start. All I have to do is cut and paste what I have already written and post the screenshots. If this is the way you and Jeff handle builds that go wrong, I would tell anyone that is considering going through you guys to be aware. Read the prior posts Paul..I always said good things about you and said how I would go through you guys again. Thats until you came up with that bull**** handwritten invoice for $2,750 where you're trying to get back some of the money when the motor failed on the dyno. Tell everyone how you had to pay $2,000 to the dyno shop...a shop that I'm sure you go through for all your builds. Lets play it out here Paul since you cant return a text or a phone call!

[torqhead]

Most all of us don't know and don't care about the past, and it's no longer fun or interesting. Can we just post some results of what the cure was so the rest of us can hopefully learn, that's what this forum and the hobby is about.

There I said it... Thank you!

[GTO JONES]

Originally Posted by torqhead

Most all of us don't know and don't care about the past, and it's no longer fun or interesting. Can we just post some results of what the cure was so the rest of us can hopefully learn, that's what this forum and the hobby is about.

There I said it... Thank you!

AMEN

[Va68goat]

torqhead, GTO JONES

I agree. I apologize. None of that is going to get my motor right. I just get fired up when Paul waltzes in acting as if he's some poor guy dealing with an irate customer and acts like his hands are clean here. There's a forum where this is going to get addressed, it's just not going to be in here. Paul, it may be just a good idea for you to either call me or just refrain from commenting.

We're about to work on the motor this evening. I'll post if something significant occurs.

[JLMounce]

To be fair, you're throwing gttofreek under the bus and you've not even taken the time to completely diagnose the problem. I'd be a little upset too if my name and reputation was being dragged through the mud without evidence to support it.

If the problem turns out to be a fuel and timing issue as so many here suspect and not due to an issue with the build, are you going to turn around and apologize about the insinuations you've been making to that effect? If it turns out to be a build deficiency and the builder isn't doing anything, the forum isn't the best place to get that resolved.

You had to have a brand new engine rebuilt at considerable extra cost. You should be understandably mad, but you've got to direct that frustration at the correct entity. Until you have diagnosed why it's currently knocking, you're making assumptions and airing your feelings out for the world to see at gtofreek's expense and honestly to yours as well. The past 3 days of this thread and how you've responded doesn't really shine you in the best light either.

Spend some time with people that know what they're doing this weekend and figure this thing out. If it turns out to just be tune related, that's great. Now go knock down MSD's door for supplying you a POS dizzy that cost you several grand in repairs. If it ends up being something your builder did, ask them to fix it, on their time and dollar and if they refuse, that's what small claims court is for. Typically you have to file in the business' jurisdiction.

Either way, as torqhead put it, this course has run it's usefulness.

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by torqhead

Most all of us don't know and don't care about the past, and it's no longer fun or interesting. Can we just post some results of what the cure was so the rest of us can hopefully learn, that's what this forum and the hobby is about.

There I said it... Thank you!

Idk, when the shat hits the fan I think its best that we see it through. It's really not fair to sweep everything under the rug because it makes people uncomfortable. I agree that we need to get to the bottom of the issue and the cure for it, but we also should know all the details of what transpired up to this point.

Just my 2 cents.

[promptcritical]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

gtofreek,

I really would hate to respond to this because it would be much better handled by a phone conversation. I notice your comments only respond to questions or comments that divert the attention from the hard questions that I have. To say that I'm rubbing things in your face is almost childish. I have questions that are difficult for you to answer because your ego and your pride are bigger than your ability to understand why someone is questioning you. It's not my problem if you're offended that someone dare challenges or questions "GTOFREEK".

I'll be more than happy to play this out right here if you want me to. Give me the word and I can start posting every text that we have sent each other. I have nothing but time but I don't want to do that. I have handled everything better than most people. I have EVERY text between you and I since day one. Plenty of them tell you not to worry about the mistake with the pickup tube and some I'm actually joking around telling you how I'm now learning something about motors. I've sent you gifts from Virginia to you when it was time to send you parts. I even offered you a plane ticket to Virginia to look at the motor and said you could stay at my house. You declined that.

I've made plenty of mistakes. I learned from them because I confronted them and I dealt with the consequences. You're throwing a tantrum because someone dared question you. Let me know if you want this played out here. I'll be more than happy to start. All I have to do is cut and paste what I have already written and post the screenshots. If this is the way you and Jeff handle builds that go wrong, I would tell anyone that is considering going through you guys to be aware. Read the prior posts Paul..I always said good things about you and said how I would go through you guys again. Thats until you came up with that bull**** handwritten invoice for $2,750 where you're trying to get back some of the money when the motor failed on the dyno. Tell everyone how you had to pay $2,000 to the dyno shop...a shop that I'm sure you go through for all your builds. Lets play it out here Paul since you cant return a text or a phone call!

Wow. Just wow.

[tooski]

I've watched (trolled) this thread from the beginning. Even made a comment a couple of times. 40 pages , 791 posts, no resolution. I am interested in learning of cures for various problems encountered with our Pontiac engines; this is one of them. Not the bickering. I am still interested in the solution.

BTW I did listen to the recent youtube posts. To me the one from this year does not sound as bad as the one from last year until the engine is idled down to near stalling. When it is revved up to idle and past I can still hear a tick/knock, but just faintly.

[Va68goat]

JLMounce

You wrote: "To be fair, you're throwing gtofreek under the bus and you've not even taken the time to completely diagnose the problem". I've spent 2 years and $4,575 diagnosing the problem. (Thats about half of the price of the motor). I think that is enough time and money to be considered "Taking the time" to properly diagnose the problem. I'm not going to take the time to rant anymore about this experience. I want focus more on getting this fixed. I can tell you with 100% certainty, this motor has the exact same noise as it did before. The last two days have been spent on timing and adjusting the carb. I don't want to post any more videos until absolutely 100% of everything is checked.

I've never said anything negative about this experience until I paid the ransom money to get my motor back. I knew it would not be well received by mentioning anything negative about Paul or Koerner Racing. I'm prepared to deal with the comments. You can guarantee that if this knocking noise is something stupid and it's something like ignition, vibration etc, I will disclose that and apologize to Paul for that aspect. On the other hand..if the knock is still exactly the same, how do you explain the bad bushing in the distributor? We are trying to go through what is on the motor now that wasn't used on the dyno..fuel pump etc. We got a signature at the distributor again. I think the plan is to try another distributor.

[Paul E]

Feel bad for your engine builder. He may not want to build engines in the future and ship them to customers who can not do the correct work, installation and setup. Likely should have stuck with a stock setup or had someone who you could pay to take care of everything as a turn key. I offered advise not knowing that the engine timing was not even adjusted trying to help. You may be making problems for your self. The mirror may explain this better.

[Va68goat]

Paul E,
I won't even address that comment.

[Scott Roberts]

Is this your first complete engine rebuild and install... serious question.

[Va68goat]

Scott Roberts,

Yes. I've only been into these old cars for about 5 years. I had a 68 Firebird HO, 4 speed car that I sold. It was too perfect and I wanted a driver. I didn't put my hands on this motor at all. The only real work I did on this car is I redid the engine compartment...sanded and painted. The friends that helped with installation of the motor all have Pontiacs and have been working on them for many, many years.

[ponchjoe]

There seems to be a large an mount of drama being perpetuated by the members of this forum. I have been reading this since the beginning and offered ideas early on. Something is apparently going on but none of us are there with Joe and none of us were there with Paul during any of this.
Can we refrain from speculation and opinions based on what we see on the internet and wait for the root cause so we can all learn and apply it in the future? That is what the foundation of this forum is based on and created for.

[Va68goat]

ponchjoe,

You're right and I'm just as guilty as others. I'm trying to stay focused but sometimes I lose my cool. Thats not helping. Hey, check out the other thread I put up about the result of the 1st dyno. I started that thread because I wanted to focus on the distrbutor and the dyno session. Some are wondering if the bad distributor bushing was the result of a problem more than the cause of the knock. I don't know enough to make an educated guess but I know the noise I heard yesterday is the exact noise that I've been listening to for 2 years. The knock is still here. We got a signature at the distributor again when we used a broomstick to listen. This was the 1st time that I personally put my ear to a broomstick and listened. I was impressed that actually works.

[Va68goat]

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=831250