[grivera]

Originally Posted by jonmachota78

I've been thinking since the very beginning this sounds like a bad lifter. I know the lifters have been replaced but that doesn't mean you don't have another bad lifter. It has happened to me!

I had same concerns with a Joe. Considering the history of this engine it would be nice to have a video of it idling on in dyno room.

[Va68goat]

The picture of the cam is from August 5, 2018.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by jonmachota78

I've been thinking since the very beginning this sounds like a bad lifter. I know the lifters have been replaced but that doesn't mean you don't have another bad lifter. It has happened to me!

Messy job but I think I'd have to get the palm of my hand on the rockers just to see before swinging the engine to look inside.

Definately needs ruled out before the exploratory surgery begins.

Clay

[lust4speed]

I need to get a life. Sunday afternoon and I just spent over two hours reading all the posts catching up from post #1 to #922.

Here are the things that are probably involved:
1. Distributor driveshaft wear from touching sides of block hole
2. Destroyed bottom distributor bushing
3. Enough vibration to shake the oil pickup loose

So none of the three usually happen very often and not all together. MSD has produced thousands of distributors with the funky bushing probably without a wear problem, oil pump driveshafts normally have plenty of clearance, and if an oil pump does come off it is after considerable time and not fresh off the dyno. So something isn't right and caused these problems soon after the build. Noise down at low RPM turning into a vibration at higher RPM's which would be difficult to catch.

I also see photos of the copper coating on the cam so it's probably a Crane cam. This also means that it is probably a cam with the cast iron end pressed on so a standard distributor gear can be run.

I'd be looking at the cam...

[TedRamAirII]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

I need to get a life. Sunday afternoon and I just spent over two hours reading all the posts catching up from post #1 to #922.

Here are the things that are probably involved:
1. Distributor driveshaft wear from touching sides of block hole
2. Destroyed bottom distributor bushing
3. Enough vibration to shake the oil pickup loose

So none of the three usually happen very often and not all together. MSD has produced thousands of distributors with the funky bushing probably without a wear problem, oil pump driveshafts normally have plenty of clearance, and if an oil pump does come off it is after considerable time and not fresh off the dyno. So something isn't right and caused these problems soon after the build. Noise down at low RPM turning into a vibration at higher RPM's which would be difficult to catch.

I also see photos of the copper coating on the cam so it's probably a Crane cam. This also means that it is probably a cam with the cast iron end pressed on so a standard distributor gear can be run.

I'd be looking at the cam...

Crane Cam? No way, Paul is a VooDoo Man!

[grivera]

It’s a Lunati cam

[lust4speed]

Actually that makes me feel a little better since I'm pretty much a Crane cam guy, and was feeling like I fingered my Cousin Vinni or something. Anyway, maybe the basic premise is valid.

[Steve C.]

It's a custom Lunati hyd roller cam with Voodoo lobes.

Post number 7



.

[Va68goat]

"QUICK-SILVER",
I'm so sick of diagnosing this motor considering a knocking motor was delivered to me TWICE and it cost me $1,900 in diagnosing and an additional $2,575 to get the same knocking motor back. If it's a lifter, I sure as !^%#@ don't think it's my responsibility to pay for them. My friends and I have done more than enough to fix a builder problem. There is no denying that a knocking motor was sent to me twice.

lust4speed,
Thanks for ruining your Sunday on my knocking motor..hahaha. When I sent Paul the distributor, he recurved it and he added the polymer gear. As for the camshaft, the buld sheet says it's a Custom Lunati Voodoo Hyd Roller (Duration @.050: 243/251 advanced duration 295/303 lobe separation 112). A forum member reached out to me and asked me if Paul had switched the cam because I lost so much low end torque from the Street Avenger Carb to the Jeff Koerner Carb. I know nothing about that just putting it out there,

[68 461 Bird]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

"QUICK-SILVER",
I'm so sick of diagnosing this car considering a knocking motor was delivered to me TWICE and it cost me $1,900 in diagnosing and an addtiotnal $2,575 to get the motor back. If it's a lifter, I sure as !^%#@ don't think it's my responsibility to pay for them. My friends and I have done more than enough to fix a builder problem. There is no denying that a knocking motor was sent to me twice.

lust4speed,
Thanks for ruining your Sunday on my knocking motor..hahaha. When I sent Paul the distributor, he recurved it and he added the polymer gear. As for the camshaft, the buld sheet says it's a Custom Lunati Voodoo Hyd Roller (Duration @.050: 243/251 advanced duration 295/303 lobe separation 112). A forum member reached out to me and asked me if Paul had switched the cam because I lost so much low end torque from the Street Avenger Carb to the Jeff Koerner Carb. I know nothing about that just putting it out there,

Wow $4,500 extra for a knocking engine and Paul hasn't done anything to right this situation except blame it on bad gas? Paul is going to hope his next customer doesn't read the Street section of the PY forum. Maybe all his racing engines have a knocking noise but no one can hear it with open headers? Just a thought.

As for Lust4speed spending a Sunday afternoon reading this thread, I consider it time well spent. There's a lot of great advice here as to what to check with this problem. I learned a lot when I spent the time to read all the posts.

I agree with some of the others that its time to pull it and open it up. What are you planning on doing next?

[Va68goat]

68 461 Bird,
I have so much to say to your comment but none of it is going to make the motor right. I know one thing...I'm not willing to walk away...thats for sure. I have no idea what the next step is. Honestly, everything I'm willing to do and pay for has been done.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by 68 461 Bird

Wow $4,500 extra for a knocking engine and Paul hasn't done anything to right this situation except blame it on bad gas? Paul is going to hope his next customer doesn't read the Street section of the PY forum. Maybe all his racing engines have a knocking noise but no one can hear it with open headers? Just a thought.

As for Lust4speed spending a Sunday afternoon reading this thread, I consider it time well spent. There's a lot of great advice here as to what to check with this problem. I learned a lot when I spent the time to read all the posts.

I agree with some of the others that its time to pull it and open it up. What are you planning on doing next?

This isn’t fair as it makes it sound like Paul hasn’t done anything - he has spent many hours on phone with Joe directing every move he made to diagnose this issue. It’s my understanding every part replaced or checked was co-signed by Paul.

[Va68goat]

grivera,
Talking on the phone while my friends turn a wrench to make this motor right only gets so much credit. He hasn't spoken to me since I paid the ransom for the motor.

[Mike Davis]

I have not read all the post.... but has anyone checked all the tie bars on the lifters to see if they were hitting the lifter bores? I seen one that sounded similar and the cam was ground with a low base circle and the tie bars were hitting the bores.

[64speed]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

grivera,
Talking on the phone while my friends turn a wrench to make this motor right only gets so much credit. He hasn't spoken to me since I paid the ransom for the motor.

I hope you paid with a credit or debit card cause then you can just dispute it and provide the texts as faulty service. Most credit card companies side with their customers if they don’t have a history of disputing everything coming and going.

[Va68goat]

Mike Davis,
Paul built this motor and he said he recently tore this motor down. I don't know if that was checked or not after he found what he thought was the smoking gun of the damaged distributor bushing.

64speed,
I didn't pay with a credit card but thats not the end of the world either. For right now, I'm just wanting to get this motor right so I can enjoy it. Everything else can be handled at another time. The good thing is that even though Paul has gone ghost, Jeff sent me a text and said he located someone that can look at the motor.

[Sun Tuned]

Tell you what I'd do....

Pull it and take it to Butler. Have em find what ever is the deal. If they do find it, have em fix it.... send Paul a bill.
If they don'tfind something, eat it.

This assuredly can be figured out. No need to spend another 45 pages on it.

[tom s]

Mike,post 919 has a pic,looks fine.Tom

[Va68goat]

Sun Tuned,
At this point I'm not willing to pay any additonal money to have this repaired. If Paul or Jeff want to pay...I'd be willing to accept that. I never received what I paid a lot of money for. I know this thread is exhausting to deal with but this whole thing was just wrong.

[TedRamAirII]

I'm confused about "warranty", it was my ASSUMPTION that is was a warranty matter. Like, "Ship it here and we will fix it", period. Any parts replacement and testing/ verifying the repair should have been at their expense. But, I think, once you took it upon yourself to take the engine apart, that may have nullified any warranty. Problems were found, and repaired, but the main problem has been missed. The builder claims all is well? if so, run it. Get their permission in writing, that the "Engine operates as designed". I hate to say it, but if they refuse to remedy the issue at hand, get it fixed and take them to court. I know that's the last thing you or they want, but what other remedy is there? They claim that they fixed it. I would think they would have their own Engine Run Stand, to make sure all is well, and not depend on a Dyno Operator, look at output, check for oil leaks, then ship it, especially knowing what a ordeal this engine has been for you, and them. I sure would have been in that dyno room, after the session, listening to it idle for 30 minutes. I withhold judgement until the problem is remedied. I know the first priority is getting the engine FIXED! If there truly was no knocking at the Dyno room, then all needs to be checked. I once had a Buick that had a slight knock, and you could feel it in the oil pan, like a crank weight was slightly rubbing the pan. I could use a wooden hammer handle and push on the pan and make it louder. The guy decided he would live with it, since it was a ordeal to pull it. I wonder if a Tech was hired, that knew nothing of this ordeal, to find the cause of this noise, what steps he would do to find it. Certainly the steps that have been taken would be included, but one has to go deeper. Has a Slow Motion Video been taken? to see if its Crankshaft Speed, or every other revolution? that certainly would be the first fork in the road. Did anyone manually spin the oil pump shaft while the distributor was out? I certainly would, to feel for any abnormality, I usually use a Speed Handle. A Vacuum Gauge would certainly indicate a valve issue. A shop with a Ignition Scope and a Cylinder Pressure Transducer would be next, because of the rough misfire. When this is found, we will all be kicking ourselves, I'm sure.